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Old 09-20-2009, 12:15 AM
 
37,083 posts, read 18,947,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
What's amazing in WW1, is that you had some armies just collapse on a national level due to the rate and amount of casualties.

Desertions are nothing new, regiments, divisions, and sometimes total army groups routing in battle are nothing new in history - but in WW1 in the later stages you just had mass collapse in a nation's miliary force as soldiers realized they had no chance for survival.
France had a mass mutiny in its entire military, Italy in late 1917 just stopped fighting, Russia in 1917 "voted for armistice with their feet" as Lenin put it.

It set the historical limit on how much of a casualty rate a societies military force could endure before collapsing.
The French mutiny was interesting in that the soldiers didn't abandon their posts in large numbers - they simply refused to attack. Which made sense, what with the tactics used at the time.

I've visited WWI and WWII battlefields, and the WWI ones are still by far the grimmest. The concentrated nature of the bombardments and the poor quality of the munitions means that swaths of countryside are still basically unfarmable or in places even unsafe to walk.

I still have a piece of shrapnel from "Mort Homme" at Verdun - there was more than enough to go around, even in the late 80s when I was there. And while I'm not superstitious,that place makes it hard not to believe in ghosts.

Anyway, WWII was by far the most damaging.
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Europe
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WW2 was much more destructive. The weapons for killing and destroying were more effective and world changed completely after WW2.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The French mutiny was interesting in that the soldiers didn't abandon their posts in large numbers - they simply refused to attack. Which made sense, what with the tactics used at the time.

I've visited WWI and WWII battlefields, and the WWI ones are still by far the grimmest. The concentrated nature of the bombardments and the poor quality of the munitions means that swaths of countryside are still basically unfarmable or in places even unsafe to walk.

I still have a piece of shrapnel from "Mort Homme" at Verdun - there was more than enough to go around, even in the late 80s when I was there. And while I'm not superstitious,that place makes it hard not to believe in ghosts.

Anyway, WWII was by far the most damaging.
I am just finishing reading about "Mort Homme"...I have seen a few places, non as dramatic as that, but there are ghosts in places like that.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Saturn
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Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I'm going to say WW1, primarily because in reality it lead almost directly and inevitably into WW2.
It is a good point.

And some historians would argue that WW2 was a continuation of WW1.

In terms of the deathtoll, WW2 was significantly worse because WW1's deathtoll was primarily military in nature, whereas WW2 had high levels of both civilian and military casualties.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
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As for "Paths of Glory"; it seems to me now that the Adolph Monjou character is the real hero (so to speak) of the picture and the Kirk Douglas character is a naive fool.

Given Kubrick's misanthropic personality I think he was probably thinking the same thing. Though Douglas certainly wasn't.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:44 AM
 
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I watched the Battle of Gallipoli and also the Battle of the Somme yesterday on Youtube as the carnage of those battle was just incredible. Sending thousands upon thousands of troops over the trench lines to run straight at the machine gunners and artillery fire was damn near suicide by the commanders. It makes me wonder how did europe have any manpower 25 years later to fight WW2 after the Great War ended.
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indurain View Post

And some historians would argue that WW2 was a continuation of WW1.
To think that an obscure Serbian Gavrilo Princip would launch WW1 by his assasination of Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914 which would some several decades later give Hitler the excuse to attack Poland/France which would start WW2 which would lead to the Cold War between the USA and the Soviet Union as i'm sure that poor ol' Gavrilo never realised that his pistol shot in 1914 would create so much commotion around the world over the next 80 years or so .
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Old 09-22-2009, 06:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 FOOT 3 View Post
I watched the Battle of Gallipoli and also the Battle of the Somme yesterday on Youtube as the carnage of those battle was just incredible. Sending thousands upon thousands of troops over the trench lines to run straight at the machine gunners and artillery fire was damn near suicide by the commanders. It makes me wonder how did europe have any manpower 25 years later to fight WW2 after the Great War ended.
Could you give me the link to that? Sounds very interesting.
The carnage everywhere was beyond belief. Also highly mismanaged even for the time. Too many egos were involved . Verdun was another tragic location. It is said that Verdun's history has been written in blood. Since the Bronze Age there has been a settlement of some sort there. It is the gateway to the Rhineland and the easiest place to cross the River. The Romans named the village "Verdunum" meaning "Strong Fort".
Attila sacked and burned the town and Charlemagne's grandsons held the Treaty of Verdun there to divide the Frankish Empire.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Trudy Rose View Post
Could you give me the link to that? Sounds very interesting.

Youtube - The Somme Pt 1



Youtube - Battle of Gallipoli Pt 1
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:06 AM
 
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Thanks.. I just watched pt 1 of the Somme.. now I know what I'll be doing the rest of the day It is so haunting to see the actual films and see the faces and hear the words of all those who fought.
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