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I think you are totally wrong, Angus. H.L. Mencken was no more antisemitic than most of U.S. society at the time. .
Consider who you are directing this toward. Nothing is relative in his world.. We can't use time as a reference according to him...
For example, a normal man in the early 20th century and before is nothing short of a raging misongynist (and don't forget EVIL) because he may have thought a woman's place was in the kitchen and that women shouldn't vote.
Nice. Equating being a woman with being a slave. In your world, we can excuse slave-owners and slavery supporters because they were 19th Century. Presumably in your world we can excuse the George Wallaces and the Ross Barnetts and the various Imperal Wizards and Grand Dragons and ingornat redneck southern sherrifs for the same reason. Except of course, they weren't 19th Century, were they?
You really ought to get away from the grits for a while and view the Civil War and the South as the rest of the world does. Of course, the rest of the world didn't benefit from reading all about 'The War of Northern Aggression' like you and your fellow revisionists did. They actually read real books by real historians, instead of the pablum you were obviously raised on.
You really ought to get away from the grits for a while and view the Civil War as the rest of the world does. Of course, the rest of the world didn't benefit from reading all about 'The War of Northern Aggression' like you and your fellow revisionists did. They actually read real books by real historians, instead of the pablum you were obviously raised on.
Actually I'd take a gander that you haven't even read one. I'm more than willing to listen to posters such as Irishtom who actually have something other than vitriol to back up what they are saying.
A person that doesn't understand what a metaphor is, such as yourself, connects dots that have no business being connected.
My comment on time-sensitive analysis on the history of male thought toward women had ZERO to do with comparing the plight of women with that of slaves, but once again.........
Yeah but the thing is they DIDN'T put racism aside and the Confederate congress refused to recruit black troops. It was IILEGAL for Blacks to serve as Confederate soldiers though obviously many accompanied Confederate armies as servants, teamsters, cooks and laborers.
There are many cranks involved in this Black Confederate nonsense.
Where is your evidence for this? April: 1865, the book, clearly states that intergraded Confederate units were training in Richmond before its fall. You also said that the tariffs were lowered in the 1850's, where is your evidence for this? I have read much to idicate the contrary. Although slavery certainly had an impact in the argument for Southern secession, there were many other causes as well. Personal agendas should not over-ridie historical fact, and neither should your clear Northern biased. 90 percent of Confederate soliders owned no slaves; I find it hard to believe that so many non-slave owners would die for an institution in which they had no monetary stake in. Southerners saw the North as an encroaching inustrial superpower, a foreign invading force. Even the North did not make the war about slavey until Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863-To strop Great Britain and France from allying themselves with the Confederacy. Still think the war was exclusively about slavery? Here's a quote from Abraham Lincoln:
My paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union, and is neither to save or destroy slavery. (Letter to Horace Greeley)
Let the South go? Let the South go? Where shall we get our revenues? (Attributed to Lincoln in the book Memoirs of Service Afloat)
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution where it already exists. I believe I have no right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. (Inaugural Address, March 1861)
Believe what you want, and you certainly have a right to your own opinion, but so do I. After studying this subject for quite some time, my conclusion is that while slavery certainly played an important role in the Civil War, there were other key underlying causes. I think only a Southerner can really understand the loyalty to our section of this nation, and I think it helps one understand the Confederate position better than would an outsider. Being from Arkansas, however, may also lead me to be slightly biased.
When The Civil War was over the Blacks should have been sent back to Africa. To release them onto America was a sin. No Blacks fought on the Southern side of the war. A few did fight for the North. But their participation was very limited.
Repatriation of blacks to Africa started in the early 1800s with the American Colonization Society. The end result was the creation of Liberia ("land of the free") in Africa, with its capitol "Monrovia", named after colonization supporter and President James Monroe. The effort ran before and after the civil war and was widely supported even by abolishionist whites who felt that blacks would never overcome white prejudice and receive fair treatment.
Liberia ended up having its own struggles between native africans and repatriated former slaves. After generations of slavery and poor records, it was largely impossible to return free slaves to their country of origin, and even then they would know little to nothing of it.
In the end, freed slaves had a choice: stay in the country you are in a know a little about where the whites don't like you, or go to another country you know nothing about, and the native blacks don't like you.
Actually I'd take a gander that you haven't even read one. I'm more than willing to listen to posters such as Irishtom who actually have something other than vitriol to back up what they are saying.
A person that doesn't understand what a metaphor is, such as yourself, connects dots that have no business being connected.
My comment on time-sensitive analysis on the history of male thought toward women had ZERO to do with comparing the plight of women with that of slaves, but once again.........
Yeah, I'd ignore those lynching statistics if I was from the South, too.
Guess what - Slavery and Jim Crow and this revisionist garbage about the poor southern slaveholders victimized by those nasty Northerners deserves vitriol.
Still think the war was exclusively about slavery? Here's a quote from Abraham Lincoln:
My paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union, and is neither to save or destroy slavery. (Letter to Horace Greeley)
Let the South go? Let the South go? Where shall we get our revenues? (Attributed to Lincoln in the book Memoirs of Service Afloat)
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution where it already exists. I believe I have no right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. (Inaugural Address, March 1861)
What the war was about depended largely on which side you were on. For the south, the war was primarily about economics. The largest single factor being that an abolishionist was assuming the Presidency.
Much like today, people's reactions are not always based on what the President claims he will do, but on their own perception of what he would WANT to do... and make no mistake that the south perceived that Lincoln would move abolishionist goals. The south had a huge amount of wealth tied up in slavery which made it by far the 800 lb gorrilla issue. In effect, the south was fighting what it perceived to impending tyranny. The imposition of northern ideas that would rob them of wealth. Sure, there were others, but slavery really was the BIG impetus. If not for Lincoln's election, the secession and Civil War is likely delayed.
That said, the north did not fight the war to free the slaves. The north was acting put down a rebellion - simple as that. The north was fighting for the preservation of the union from a domestic thread - southern secessionists. Imagine if we had a United States in which states could come and go at will! How absurd that would function. Every state on the wrong side of a major issue would choose to leave the union when it suited them. That is a loose alliance - not a nation.
Read the federalist papers, and you will note that the civil war was long coming and well predicted and it hinged on the slavery economy more than moral values or anything else.
Ironically, the secession itself may have been the true impetus for the end of slavery... an issue heretofo so complex and difficult that it had been constantly kicked down the road.
It wasn't morality, it was economics and way of life - and slavery is the big dog in that discussion. Much of the north was every bit as racist as the south.
Yeah, I'd ignore those lynching statistics if I was from the South, too.
Guess what - Slavery and Jim Crow and this revisionist garbage about the poor southern slaveholders victimized by those nasty Northerners deserves vitriol.
Holy strawman!!!
Not even sure who you're really arguing with quite honestly...
You find one place where you think I've excused slavery or racism and I'll show you a gross case of drawing connections that aren't there.
Weren't you the one telling me that Northern racists - undoubtedly products of those terrible northern schools - were much worse than southern racists?
Leaving aside the evil Jim Crow laws that you people imposed for a hundred years after the Civil War, I'd say the lynching statistics disprove that silly theory.
Of course you can ignore those, just like you can ignore the real causes of the Civil War and persist in this absolute nonsense that it was some sort of noble endeavor by the poor beleaguered South. The Civil War came about because the South saw that demographics on slavery were against them due to western expansion, and Lincoln's election gave them an excuse to form their own country, where they could have as many slaves as they wanted.
Actually I share something in common with those folks. Like them, I wish the South was a separate country, too.
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) because he may have thought a woman's place was in the kitchen and that women shouldn't vote.
