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Old 11-10-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
374 posts, read 809,136 times
Reputation: 567

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You know guys, the former Confederacy did not invent racism. And not all racial problems can be traced back to the Civil War; it's just human nature to villianize people who are different. Furthermore, being proud of one's regional heritage or having a Confederate flag on a pickup truck does not automatically make somebody a member of the Ku Klux Klan. There are plenty of schools in Arkansas with the mascot "The Rebels" who display Confederate flags at pep rallies and ball games. And believe it or not, there are black players on these teams who don't really care one way or the other and don't really relate this kind of symbolism with slavery or segregation. It's like saying the Irish shamrock is racist; it's just a symbol of a region with a distinct cultural heritage. Most of the demonizing of the Confederate flag, generals, ect. comes from white apologists and self-hating Southerners, at least from my personal experiences. In Arkansas, we celebrate Martin Luther King Jr. Day and Robert E. Lee Day on the SAME day, because they were BOTH great Americans. Lee did not believe in slavery anymore than U.S. Grant did, and probably said more tolerant things about black people than some of the quotes you can find from Abraham Lincoln, and certainly William T. Sherman (A former slave owner).
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:57 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,522,596 times
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Read Lindbergh's Sept 11, 1941 speach. It could have come from Hitler blaming the Jews for the war. More generally read his diaries and various magazine articles dating from 1938. Some are in magazines no longer in business, others still are and in large public libraries you may find them in paper or electronically.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,663,379 times
Reputation: 10453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark90 View Post
You know guys, the former Confederacy did not invent racism.

No, but they engaged in it with great enthusiasm and for profit.

And if ole Bobby Lee didn't hold with slavery he sure had an odd way of showing it, you know, in effect fighting to preserve it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:42 PM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,256,342 times
Reputation: 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
No, but they engaged in it with great enthusiasm.
Definately a pot-kettle thing there as far as this nation (and the world) are concerned, but whatever...
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:55 PM
 
2,450 posts, read 5,579,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Dan View Post
But most white parents are pulling thier kids out of public schools because of poor performance in that school. Because of crime in that school. Because of rampant drug use in that school. Not neccasarily to get away from minorities.
that's sort of a chicken-and-egg thing.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,663,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Definately a pot-kettle thing there as far as this nation (and the world) are concerned, but whatever...
Well I cold-cocked a gouster with some Irish confetti in a gang fight in 1965 but I never owned any slaves.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:55 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,969,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
No, but they engaged in it with great enthusiasm and for profit.

And if ole Bobby Lee didn't hold with slavery he sure had an odd way of showing it, you know, in effect fighting to preserve it.
That was then. This is now. I'm from Cleveland and lived several years in Chicago. I heard more racial epithets in any given week in those cities than I've heard in my 15 years down south. In fact, I heard the N word more time at my Uncle's dinner table in Cleveland last Thanksgiving than I've heard in my entire tenure here.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,663,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
That was then. This is now
This is a history forum, we talk about then, not now.

In any event when I lived in Kentucky I saw a great deal of veiled hostility towards Blacks. I'll buy that many northerners may be as hostile towards Blacks as southerners but I sure as Hell don't buy into the new "common knowledge" that they're more hostile. And EVERY working class white person I know up here voted for Obama; that or won't admit having voted against him.

I don't know what the bourgeois is doing though.

Last edited by Irishtom29; 11-10-2009 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: MI
1,069 posts, read 3,188,641 times
Reputation: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
No, but they engaged in it with great enthusiasm and for profit.

And if ole Bobby Lee didn't hold with slavery he sure had an odd way of showing it, you know, in effect fighting to preserve it.
And the North didn't profit 1 cent off of slavery? Not only did they profit from slavery they allmighty moral North had something even better, child labor which went on long after 1865.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:42 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,969,898 times
Reputation: 46662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
This is a history forum, we talk about then, not now.

In any event when I lived in Kentucky I saw a great deal of veiled hostility towards Blacks. I'll buy that many northerners may be as hostile towards Blacks as southerners but I sure as Hell don't buy into the new "common knowledge" that they're more hostile. And EVERY working class white person I know up here voted for Obama; that or won't admit having voted against him.

I don't know what the bourgeois is doing though.
That's nice. But if we're going to talk about historic hostility towards blacks in the South, then it's equally fair to rehash race riots in supposedly-enlightened venues such as Indiana, New York, Springfield, East St. Louis, Omaha, Chester Pennsylvania, Detroit, and Chicago. And, of course, the KKK enjoyed a great deal of recruiting success in places such as Washington state, Oregon, California, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Rhode Island. Heck, during the Klan's resurgence in the 1920s, most of its membership was in the Midwest.
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