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Old 11-15-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,560 posts, read 14,455,230 times
Reputation: 10165

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
There is a subsiquent Supreme Court Ruling which interpreted the 14th Amendment as prohibiting Secession and making it Treason for a Government Official to advocate Secession. When I get a chance I'll look it up, even better you could. It was shortly after the civil War, around 1870.
So the sooner we get about it, the sooner we can start jailing traitors
Dilemma here being, as I pointed out, that the secession occurred in 1861. Not 1869 or 1870. Are you trying to assert that they made the law retroactive? It's pretty hard to avoid disobeying the law if courts can enact laws retroactively, wouldn't you say? "Hi. Yeah, I know abortion was legal when you had one, but now it's outlawed retroactively, so please come quietly with the nice officers. You have the right to remain silent..."
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,746,107 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Dilemma here being, as I pointed out, that the secession occurred in 1861. Not 1869 or 1870. Are you trying to assert that they made the law retroactive? It's pretty hard to avoid disobeying the law if courts can enact laws retroactively, wouldn't you say? "Hi. Yeah, I know abortion was legal when you had one, but now it's outlawed retroactively, so please come quietly with the nice officers. You have the right to remain silent..."

The Rebels didn't take their case to court and attempt to secede within the framework of the law. They appealed to war rather than the Supreme Court and they lost their case.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:17 PM
 
216 posts, read 343,403 times
Reputation: 118
If you would check it out this was an ongoing fuss for over ten years with DC . Really check out old Abe . Some Yankees still think it was about slavery it wasen't as discussed in prior posts .Abe was the biggest start to making us all slaves to the Government .
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,560 posts, read 14,455,230 times
Reputation: 10165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
The Rebels didn't take their case to court and attempt to secede within the framework of the law. They appealed to war rather than the Supreme Court and they lost their case.
Indeed. There are plenty of ways to argue that secession was illegal, etc., provided one also accepts that our own national secession some ninety years prior was just as illegal (perhaps more so).

I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense for someone to argue that an 1861 secession was illegal because it contravened an Amendment enacted eight years later and perhaps opined on by the Supreme Court (I'm not taking anyone's word for that without the evidence, given how badly the poster misunderstood the Amendment itself) at some subsequent point. One can't make a law today, then turn around and apply it eight years ago.
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:14 PM
 
72,981 posts, read 62,569,376 times
Reputation: 21878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I don't know, did the North profit from slavery? How? And if so I assume not so much as the southern slaveowners did.

Child labor wasn't slavery. Better to be poor than to be property, wouldn't you agree?
The North did profit from slavery, but in an indirect way. Where did the textile mills in the North get their materials? From the South, slaves were picking the cotton. The North used cotton picked in the South to supply their mills.
Distilleries in the North used sugar cane picked by slaves to make rum.

There is more information:Northern Profits from Slavery
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Old 11-16-2009, 06:39 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,292,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
The Rebels didn't take their case to court and attempt to secede within the framework of the law. They appealed to war rather than the Supreme Court and they lost their case.
Not wishing to go down that road, but "appealed to war"?

The South would have been more than happy to be let go without war but Lincoln made it clear that only BY war would they be allowed to secede, no? And as I've argued in the past, if you think logically about it, what sense does it make to appeal to the body you're seceding from for permission to secede??

Again, secession did NOT have to equal war. BOTH sides share responsibility for it getting to that point.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,690,750 times
Reputation: 9980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim View Post
Most libs and or nuts in DC tossed the constitution long ago . Most don't even know what the first three words of it are ???

At present Texas has a movement in the working some more states have notified DC of their intent under the 10 amendment . Don't think the court can rewrite the constitution as much as it tries at times Abe tossed it once an now O is tromping it fauther down History repeating . If Texas makes the break there will be a flood of Southern folks moving there .Save your Confederate money boys it is already worth more than the dollar
Then the United States should immmediately withdraw American Troops from Texas, close all Federal Facilities and the border with Texas
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:21 AM
 
216 posts, read 343,403 times
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I think Texas would be happier . The Feds can't close the border with Mexico bet Texas can .See the Texas National Movement
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,746,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Not wishing to go down that road, but "appealed to war"?
Well yeah Rhett, attacking Fort Sumter was certainly an act of war. And by the Rebels unilaterally declaring their secession it was inevitable that the Federal government would interpret secession as rebellion and any responsible government is going to attempt to suppress rebellion. And suppression of rebellion often means war. It would've been unreasonable of the Rebels to think they could simply declare their independence and just walk away without expecting war. And indeed events proved that the Rebels expected war and were quite willing to fight one to attain their goal.


I wonder what would've happened if the rebelling states had sued for secession in the courts rather than just declaring themselves independant? For one thing it would've avoided (or postponed) the attack on Fort Sumter and for another had they won their case they wouldn't have been rebels.

Last edited by Irishtom29; 11-16-2009 at 08:32 AM..
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:00 AM
 
72,981 posts, read 62,569,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim View Post
I think Texas would be happier . The Feds can't close the border with Mexico bet Texas can .See the Texas National Movement
The USA got Texas because of a war with Mexico.
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