Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cortez and Pizzaro also benefited from dealing with poor opponents. The Aztec chief thought the Spanish were gods (as Aztec legend spoke of a white god landing in the West) and the Incan leader badly misjudged his oponent and essentially sold his nation out.
My guess is that the political divisions in the New World and the Spanish fire power and sea borne advantage would have enentually led to the fall of the native kingdoms without disease, but it would have taken far longer. Horses and (interestingly) metal armor were other huge advantages. Historical accounts suggest that Spanish losses from battle were extremely light when they actually wore their armor as aztec clubs and bows failed to penetrate it. Divisions among native tribes, skillfully employed by the spanish, were also critical.
The Portugese conquered considerable areas in modern Indonesia, and other european states did later as well, with out serious loss of life do to disease, so while it clearly had an effect, that effect can be overstated.
Very easy answer - They would have been slaves and the Atlantic slave trade from Africa may have been considerably dimished.
The reason for bringing African over in the first place was that the natives in the Americas died too quickly when the Europeans tried to enslave them.
I don't know about that, but since it is all hypothetical, anything can be said and not be wrong.
I think some of the plains tribes with a warrior tradition would never make good slaves. They would rather die. Even the pacifist pueblos rose up against the spanish who tried to enslave them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J'aimeDesVilles
The Europeans and Asians were agricultural societies and had been for thousands of years.
The Indigneous people of the Americas, Africa and Oceania were primarily hunter/gatherers.
I think there were crops being raised in the americas some 5000 years ago. You can't have complex civilizations like the Inca without growing crops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali BassMan
It wouldn't have made much if any differance in America. The American Indian hadn't even invented the wheel yet. Technology doomed them.
Whoa there big guy. Actually, the concept of a wheel is readily apparent in various forms within native traditions/worldview, e.g., the sacred circle, the medicine wheel. We just never used it to make modes of transportation.
Technology did not doom them. The indigenous people have survived here for thousands of years. What is difficult to imagine or grasping is understanding how, for example, an extended village population can go from 30,000 to 3,000 due to disease. (As projected along some of the Missouri/Mississippi river villages.)
In fact, between the wars and the diseases, the native populations were eradicated up to almost 90%.
In fact, when I hear anglo's crying about how America is being invaded by illegal aliens, I laugh and think yeah, now if they were bringing diseases which killed the anglo's, THEN you would have some idea of what happened here.
Add to that most tribes were set in their longstanding feuds with each other and often fought on the sides of europeans against other tribes.
the fact that they had symbols of the wheel is not really the issue. They did not use it militarily or economically and that was critical. Still it was gunpoweder, metal armor, and horses that were the decisive technological advantages of Europeans along with more effective military organizations.
II don't know about the slavery issue as the North American natives weren't enslaved because the concept of slavery was so alien to them and they didn't accept the idea - I don't know if the south american culture had slavery and someone on here could elaborate.
Noooo. Slavery was very much a part of Native American culture. Here we have two posts that think Indians would be too high and honorable to exist as slaves. Lets not repeat the myth of the "Noble Savage".
Many indian tribes included slaves, most captured in wars with other tribes. Some slaves would exist for generations, offspring of slave. Now, they never had a formal institution of organized slavery working fields because of the nomadic existence of most of the tribes. But have no doubt they did exist.
Or it would be like what happened in Japan, the Europeans would return hundreds of years later with further advanced weaponry and try to destroy the native population.
For that matter: it may have indeed been another wave of Asians AKA the Japanese who would have subjugated the prior groups already here had the White Euros not existed. Most American Indians can trace their DNA straight from Asia.
Cortez and Pizzaro also benefited from dealing with poor opponents. The Aztec chief thought the Spanish were gods (as Aztec legend spoke of a white god landing in the West) and the Incan leader badly misjudged his oponent and essentially sold his nation out.
My guess is that the political divisions in the New World and the Spanish fire power and sea borne advantage would have enentually led to the fall of the native kingdoms without disease, but it would have taken far longer. Horses and (interestingly) metal armor were other huge advantages. Historical accounts suggest that Spanish losses from battle were extremely light when they actually wore their armor as aztec clubs and bows failed to penetrate it. Divisions among native tribes, skillfully employed by the spanish, were also critical.
The Portugese conquered considerable areas in modern Indonesia, and other european states did later as well, with out serious loss of life do to disease, so while it clearly had an effect, that effect can be overstated.
Too; the Aztec civilization apparently was already in decline so; another group of Indians (Mayans, perhaps?) may have taken them down had Cortez and his cohorts not existed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know about that, but since it is all hypothetical, anything can be said and not be wrong. 
