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Old 12-17-2009, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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On this day in history, 1862, Jews were expelled from three states, by order of U. S. Grant. In Grant's case, he thought they were actively causing trouble.

So are Jews persecuted merely because their religion is not mainstream, or is there some general aspect of their behavior that keeps getting them persecuted?
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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Well, that order was rescinded by Lincoln in 1863, but it does make you think. I'm certainly not an apologist for the Confederacy, but something like 10,000 Jews served in the Confederate armies, the Confederate cabinet, etc.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, that order was rescinded by Lincoln in 1863, but it does make you think. I'm certainly not an apologist for the Confederacy, but something like 10,000 Jews served in the Confederate armies, the Confederate cabinet, etc.
Lots of Christians did, too, but Grant didn't expel them,
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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because they killed Jesus
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:20 PM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health!" (set 16 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by Hasdrubal View Post
because they killed Jesus
Actually the Romans killed Jesus (and NOT the Jews).
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Originally Posted by Hasdrubal View Post
because they killed Jesus
That's not an unreasonable comment. After all, look how Americans hate all Muslims because "They bombed the WTC".

But then, I doubt if killing Jesus is what motivated Hitler to persecute them.

From 642 to 1948, the only people who ever expelled Jews were Christians, which maybe says more about Christians than about Jews.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:20 PM
 
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Because they're a minority that didn't assimilate well.
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Old 12-17-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
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Originally Posted by Hasdrubal View Post
because they killed Jesus
If that's what people believe, you'd think they'd be grateful, because people who believe that also generally believe that Jesus being crucified enables them to be forgiven for their sins. Maybe if he doesn't get nailed to a cross, no one can get forgiven and everyone is stuck with the consequences of all the times they coveted their neighbor's wife. (I'm fortunate. Both my neighbors' wives do not, shall we say, inspire covetousness.) People's disconnects never cease to amaze me, especially in the area of religion.

I think the Jews have gotten picked on for/because:

1) Insisting on staying Jews rather than becoming Christian. As a non-Christian in the modern US semi-theocracy, I can tell you it's often a pain in the butt.

2) Having the temerity to get pretty good at the few areas of endeavor in which they were expected to make their livings. ("We said you could be in retail and banking. We didn't say anything about you being effective and smart at either. What part of the memo didn't you read?")

3) Valuing education and making sure their kids grew up literate, multilingual and reaching their full potential. Very embarrassing to majority culture when its people look like lamers compared to a minority, especially in medieval times where literacy was rare and ignorance was nearly universal.

4) Most societies need an Emmanuel Goldstein (so to speak). Anyone who doesn't know what that means should put his or her analysis of humanity on hold until he or she has read and fully assimilated Orwell's 1984.

5) They were easy and profitable targets, because no one else would usually stick up for them as long as the persecution was kept down to a dull roar (i.e. hundreds or thousands of deaths rather than millions).

I always josh with my Jewish friends that when their international conspiracy finally succeeds, as an early sympathizer I should at least get a nice cushy government sinecure and benefits. If that means I have to wear a little beany, I can roll with that--after all, every workplace has its dress code. Plus, it would cover up my bald spot. Score!
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by Hasdrubal View Post
because they killed Jesus
Not quite. It was because medieval Christians widely and incorrectly believed they killed Jesus and on top of that there were all sorts of other malicious and false rumors medieval Christians made up about Jews, such as blood libel, poisoning wells, spreading pestilence etc.

As to their persecution under Rome, Romans persecuted anyone that rebelled against or opposed them. The Jews revolted 3 times. After all look what the Romans did to the Gauls, Carthaginians, and Dacians. Not defending Rome, just pointing out that the were equal opportunity oppressors.

Generally I think they got an undeserved bad rap thoughout European history. They were an easy scapegoat for all sorts of unsavory people who wanted to get general public ire off themselves, much in the same way Arab dictators and Monarchs blame Israel or made up Jewish conspiracies for as many of their own problems as they can.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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During the Middle Ages, one of the more popular motivations for suddenly becoming intolerant of Jews was that the Christian lords owed them money. The church had identified the lending of money for profit as a sin. The consequence was that when a Christian community needed some capital venture funds, they had to go to non Christians for the loan. Sometimes it was the Moors, most frequently it was the local Jews. The Jews were driven to the banking business because this was one of the few areas where they were able to prosper without Christian competition.

So, when the King, or a sufficient number of noblemen had gotten themselves deeply indebted to Jews, a wave of sudden religious fervor would sweep over them and it would be instantly recognized that Jesus wanted them to expell all of the Jews from the nation, a default crusade of sorts. And of course not only would Jesus be tickled pink by the expulsion of the Hebrews, Jesus would be doubly pleased by Christians siezing the property owned by the recently exiled.

If you could clear your debts by the deportation of your creditors, wouldn't you?
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