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Majoun I am skeptical that organized crime killed Kennedy for many reasons. First, at that time they were very cautious about confronting the US government or taking on publicity (modern organized crime obviously is very different). If they were going to kill someone for confronting them, it would have been the less obvious Senator Keaufover who did far more harm to them. Second, the FBI later infiltrated organized crime heavily, and no solid information ever surfaced tying them to the murder. The risk they would have taken in trying to kill Kennedy was vast, if discovered they would have been eradicated. It simply was not worth the risk.
Beyond that Oswald had no obvious connections to organized crime, and using someone you did not know to carry out an assasination would have been incredibly risky. It was only blind luck that the Dallas police department permited him to be killed - and you don't make such major decisions based on luck. In other important hits by organized crime the person left quickly, Oswald in contrast hung around town and got captured, not the earmark of a mob assasination.
How they even would have contacted him, or why he would have agreed to work for him is unclear. No evidence ever came to light to suggest that Oswald received money from organized crime for example and they had little to offer him but that. Or for that matter that he was seen with known organized crime figures. To me Oswald was simply too unstable a person for organized crime to recruit for such an incredibly risky hit, which could have destroyed them had he discussed dealings with them. Which he nearly certainly was going to do if captured.
Ruby's supposed connections with organized crime are in doubt too, my sense is that they were greatly exagerated and may not have existed at all. I think its highly unlikely that Kennedy was killed by organized crime.
really, what about modern presidents? This is something I did not know about. What was the Gerald Ford incident?
Gerald Ford had 2 assassination attempts against him in the same month, both in California.
On Sept. 5, 1975 in Sacramento, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme pointed a gun at him and was apprehended. She was swiftly sentenced to life imprisonment (though I heard she was recently released, a real disgrace).
On Sept. 22 of that same year, Sarah Jane Moore shot at President Ford in San Francisco. The shot was deflected and she was arrested at the scene.
John Hinckley actually shot Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981 in Washington, DC. That was the last publicized presidential assassination attempt. Security was made much tighter after that, something that previous presidents, including Ford, had resisted because they didn't want to be sealed off from the people.
Both Robert and Jackie Kennedy came to conclude that Oswald not only acted alone (which is my belief) but that his motives were purely personal not political in nature. They were, they believed, tied to jealousy of his wife's admiration for Kennedy. I think we look for greater motives or organizations behind assasinations of great men, because of a deeply held belief that they should only be killed for signficant reasons, or by other great men. Its as in our movies where the chief or great warriar is killed by the head of the other side.
But historically this has rarely been the case. None of the US presidents aside from Lincoln were (in my opinion) killed on behalf of an organization and even in his case the cabal was largely a small group of poorly organized people untied to the confederacy. Organizations have too much to lose and their plans leak out. Indivduals are essentially impossible to anticipate and its, sadly, very easy to kill a president. Hinkley just walked up to Reagan admist all the security and shot him. And he was hardly a highly trained professional, quite the opposite.
I think you're correct. People find it more comforting to believe in large conspiracies than to believe that such random, insignificant people can actually have such an effect on history, or that bad things can happen randomly for no apparent reason. I see this need to believe in false conspiracy over the real truth very often, in many different circumstances.
There were two attempts on Ford's life. I remember both of them.
The first occurred in Sacramento, CA. Ford was walking across a park. I believe he was headed for a meeting with Gov. Jerry Brown. Squeaky Fromme, a member of the Manson Family, came out of a small crowd and pointed a Colt 45 at him. A Secret Service agent saw it and put his thumb under the hammer so it could not fire. Later, it was found that there wasn't a round in the chamber. Some pundits claimed Squeaky didn't know how to use the gun. But it should be noted here that all of Manson's followers were trained in using a variety of guns and were very familiar with them.
The second attempt was less than a month later. Ford was outside of a hotel in San Francisco, CA and Sara Jane Moore fired at him. A United States Marine named Oliver Sipple saw her and knocked the barrel of the gun away very possibly saving Ford's life. A shot was fired and a bystander was wounded. Moore was paroled in 2007.
An interesting side note to the Squeaky attempt: Tom Brokaw, the television journalist and author, was in the crowd covering Ford that day. Squeaky had been wearing (if my memory is correct) a red cloak with a hood. After the Secret Service agents had tackled her and put her on the ground Brokaw moved over to get a look at her. When the agents pulled away her hood, revealing her face, Brokaw took one look and said, "My God! It's Squeaky!!"
The agents quickly jerked Brokaw aside asking him how he knew her. He had known her because he was a local news anchor in L.A. during the Manson Family killings and trials when Squeaky was a well-known follower and a spokesperson, of sorts, for Charlie.
Back then all of us who lived in L.A. and had a pulse knew what Squeaky looked like. Unfortunately.
They paroled that psycho ***** also? People who try to kill the president should never get out.
Ruby's supposed connections with organized crime are in doubt too, my sense is that they were greatly exagerated and may not have existed at all. I think its highly unlikely that Kennedy was killed by organized crime.
Jack Ruby=Mafia. It WAS a conspiracy and no, it is not comforting to believe that. People believe it because the evidence points to it being true. I wrote a lot about this in another thread and I just don't feel like going over it again. There is a lot of new evidence. Also Robert Kennedy's son has recently come out and said that RFK believed it was a conspiracy.
If Jackie or Robert Kennedy came out way back then and said there was no conspiracy, there's a good reason for saying that and pretending to believe it. They probably wanted to live, not to be killed off. Now, fifty years later, it's getting safer to come out and tell the truth.
I think you're correct. People find it more comforting to believe in large conspiracies than to believe that such random, insignificant people can actually have such an effect on history, or that bad things can happen randomly for no apparent reason. I see this need to believe in false conspiracy over the real truth very often, in many different circumstances.
We live in a technological age which has created the overpowered individual. Never even identified was the individual who in 1982 placed cyanide in Tylenol Capsules in Chicago, leading to seven deaths.
Johnson and Johnson, makers of Tylenol, had to recall 31 million bottles of the product and cease production for half a year. Their share of the pain relief market went from 38 % to 8% for the year which followed.
The incident was also behind the laws which came into being calling for tamper proof packaging on all food and medicines. Before the Tylenol attack, you bought a bottle of ketchup, unscrewed the lid and poured, there was no interior seal to remove. The entire packaging industry had to do a rush changeover, everyone in the food or medicine business was effected. It cost billions of dollars.
And all this because of some anonymous individual.
Ruby's supposed connections with organized crime are in doubt too, my sense is that they were greatly exagerated and may not have existed at all. I think its highly unlikely that Kennedy was killed by organized crime[/i].
Jack Ruby=Mafia. It WAS a conspiracy and no, it is not comforting to believe that. People believe it because the evidence points to it being true. I wrote a lot about this in another thread and I just don't feel like going over it again. There is a lot of new evidence. Also Robert Kennedy's son has recently come out and said that RFK believed it was a conspiracy.
If Jackie or Robert Kennedy came out way back then and said there was no conspiracy, there's a good reason for saying that and pretending to believe it. They probably wanted to live, not to be killed off. Now, fifty years later, it's getting safer to come out and tell the truth.
People who want to believe in a conspiracy, usually can't be talked out of it.
For starters, though, let's look at your "source". Robert Kennedy Jr, was nine years old when JFK was assassinated. Since his father, RFK, was assassinated in 1968, all these conversations occurred between the time he was 9 and 13 years old. All Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is quoted as saying in this article is that his father believed "other people" were involved in the assassination. That coming from a child is a pretty meaningless recollection. At least it is to me.
I love the way you assert the "conspiracy" as though it was a fact. Perhaps, you should tell the FBI and get them to reopen the case.
Here are some facts about Oswald that most people conveniently ignore:
1. He had tried to kill an army general, General Walker, before he assassinated JFK.
2. He obtained his job at the school book depository several months before anyone even knew the President would be visiting Dallas, Texas.
3. The route of the motorcade was published in the Dallas newspapers about 3 days before it occurred.
I believe what happened is that Oswald was a "down and out" loser looking for some notoriety in his life. General Walker (whom he tried to kill) had gained a reputation as an ardent racist and pro-segregationist. After failing to kill Walker, Oswald wasn't sure what to do. He was working at the school book depository when he learned of Kennedy's visit and saw that his motorcade's route would take him right past Oswald's place of employment. I can almost see him jumping for joy at the "good luck" he believed he had been handed. He than started forming a plan in his mind to bring his rifle to work and shoot the President as he drove past.
I have actually been to this part of Dallas and walked between the school book depository to the place in the street, marked with an X where Kennedy was shot. The distances are not as long as most people who see them on t.v. believe that they are. Oswald had to hit a moving target, but it wasn't as hard a shot as one might think.
Oswald killed Kennedy and he did it probably out of anger about failings in his own personal life and a generalized hatred of the US Government. There is no solid evidence that has ever established any conspiracy. People refuse to accept this because it is hard to acknowledge that such a low life, loser could have killed the President of the United States.
People who want to believe in a conspiracy, usually can't be talked out of it.
For starters, though, let's look at your "source". Robert Kennedy Jr, was nine years old when JFK was assassinated. Since his father, RFK, was assassinated in 1968, all these conversations occurred between the time he was 9 and 13 years old. All Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is quoted as saying in this article is that his father believed "other people" were involved in the assassination. That coming from a child is a pretty meaningless recollection. At least it is to me.
I love the way you assert the "conspiracy" as though it was a fact. Perhaps, you should tell the FBI and get them to reopen the case.
Here are some facts about Oswald that most people conveniently ignore:
1. He had tried to kill an army general, General Walker, before he assassinated JFK.
2. He obtained his job at the school book depository several months before anyone even knew the President would be visiting Dallas, Texas.
3. The route of the motorcade was published in the Dallas newspapers about 3 days before it occurred.
I believe what happened is that Oswald was a "down and out" loser looking for some notoriety in his life. General Walker (whom he tried to kill) had gained a reputation as an ardent racist and pro-segregationist. After failing to kill Walker, Oswald wasn't sure what to do. He was working at the school book depository when he learned of Kennedy's visit and saw that his motorcade's route would take him right past Oswald's place of employment. I can almost see him jumping for joy at the "good luck" he believed he had been handed. He than started forming a plan in his mind to bring his rifle to work and shoot the President as he drove past.
I have actually been to this part of Dallas and walked between the school book depository to the place in the street, marked with an X where Kennedy was shot. The distances are not as long as most people who see them on t.v. believe that they are. Oswald had to hit a moving target, but it wasn't as hard a shot as one might think.
Oswald killed Kennedy and he did it probably out of anger about failings in his own personal life and a generalized hatred of the US Government. There is no solid evidence that has ever established any conspiracy. People refuse to accept this because it is hard to acknowledge that such a low life, loser could have killed the President of the United States.
You're right, there is no solid evidence of a conspiracy. There is a lot of evidence though, but it has come out gradually, has been intentionally distorted and twisted, covered up and obscured by diversionary tactics. All sorts of other stories were invented to distract from the truth. People can believe whatever they want.
You statement that people want to believe in a conspiracy because it is hard to acknowledge that such a low life loser could have killed the President isn't correct though. It doesn't make anyone feel better now matter who killed the President. People who really care, dig for evidence and if it adds up to something, that's it whether it's comfortable or not. You don't give people much credit if you think they just believe whatever makes them comfortable.
You're right that Oswald was kind of a loser, a lone nut case even, but that's why he got involved with nefarious groups of people. People like him are often drawn to some group that offers them an identity, a chance to belong to something, to feel important.
There's a lot of evidence that at one time he was working as a spy for the US. That's how he got to go to Russia. That's how he got taught Russian. That's how, when he didn't make a very good spy, he got right back into the US--something that would normally have taken a long time, considering that back in those days the USSR was our greatest enemy and he would have been highly suspect.
There is evidence that he had CIA connections and that's why he got set up to do things like spying or killing. He did what he was told to do. He was also very naive. Perfect type of person to be manipulated and used.
Also, just because JFK JR was a child when his father spoke about other people being involved, means nothing. Maybe he heard him say that as a child, maybe his father wrote it down, maybe his father told his mother and she was an adult and could have repeated it later. Maybe it was well known within the family but they didn't talk about it to outsiders. Who would DARE mention such a thing publicly back in those days? Families talk to each other and they keep secrets from people outside the family.
I don't know when Oswald obtained the job at the TSBD but later, when it was learned that the motorcade would be passing by, his "handlers" could have tapped him for the job of assassin. How convenient: a person who does as he is told, can handle a gun, and happens to work in the right place. Or maybe he was put into that job later on, shortly before the assassination, I don't know. But there were other plans to assassinated JKF--he was doomed. They wanted to get him in Chicago but something went wrong. There were plenty of men who could be like Oswald, all over the country there were people who would have done what he did. Maybe for money, maybe for notoriety.
Lastly, maybe Oswald did fire the shot (or one of the shots) that killed Kennedy but it doesn't really matter WHO pulled the trigger. What matters is who was behind it. I'd be "more comfortable" believing it was some lone nut case but it's not about comfort, it's about finding the truth.
People who want to believe in a conspiracy, usually can't be talked out of it.
For starters, though, let's look at your "source". Robert Kennedy Jr, was nine years old when JFK was assassinated. Since his father, RFK, was assassinated in 1968, all these conversations occurred between the time he was 9 and 13 years old. All Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is quoted as saying in this article is that his father believed "other people" were involved in the assassination. That coming from a child is a pretty meaningless recollection. At least it is to me.
I love the way you assert the "conspiracy" as though it was a fact. Perhaps, you should tell the FBI and get them to reopen the case.
Here are some facts about Oswald that most people conveniently ignore:
1. He had tried to kill an army general, General Walker, before he assassinated JFK.
2. He obtained his job at the school book depository several months before anyone even knew the President would be visiting Dallas, Texas.
3. The route of the motorcade was published in the Dallas newspapers about 3 days before it occurred.
I believe what happened is that Oswald was a "down and out" loser looking for some notoriety in his life. General Walker (whom he tried to kill) had gained a reputation as an ardent racist and pro-segregationist. After failing to kill Walker, Oswald wasn't sure what to do. He was working at the school book depository when he learned of Kennedy's visit and saw that his motorcade's route would take him right past Oswald's place of employment. I can almost see him jumping for joy at the "good luck" he believed he had been handed. He than started forming a plan in his mind to bring his rifle to work and shoot the President as he drove past.
I have actually been to this part of Dallas and walked between the school book depository to the place in the street, marked with an X where Kennedy was shot. The distances are not as long as most people who see them on t.v. believe that they are. Oswald had to hit a moving target, but it wasn't as hard a shot as one might think.
Oswald killed Kennedy and he did it probably out of anger about failings in his own personal life and a generalized hatred of the US Government. There is no solid evidence that has ever established any conspiracy. People refuse to accept this because it is hard to acknowledge that such a low life, loser could have killed the President of the United States.
People who have studied the JFK assassination probably know a lot more than you do about Oswald. While he probably did take a shot at Walker, that is not 100% certainty.
I've never seen any dispute among researchers about how long he worked at the book depository, or seen any doubt that the motorcade route was published (although it wasn't quite accurate).
I will admit that your idea of a motive (he shot JFK because he was depressed over missing a shot at Walker) is one I've never heard before.
This issue is much more complicated that your ideas allow. For example:
Why did Oswald go home and get a pistol? Why did he take off walking toward Jack Ruby's apartment? Why was J. D. Tippett patrolling outside his designated area? Why did he stop Oswald? Why did Oswald change direction after the shooting?
Note also that none of these questions address the "magic bullet theory," Jack Ruby's involvement with the mob, the number of shots, the grassy knoll, or any of the dozen or so theories about possible reasons behind the assassination.
There must be a couple of hundred reasonable questions that have never been answered.
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