Re-Black Egypt (ancient, Roman, Egyptian, greatest)

[Louisvilleslugger]

If ever there were a more amusingly unfortunate surname for a scholar of the subject than that, I'd like to see it.

How come you get so emotional about this? That's why people have a hard time taking you seriously. You seem quite emotionally wrapped up in this, and as I said before, it's obviously racially motivated. It's your right to choose to approach it that way, of course, so long as you realize that it'll mean people take you less seriously thanks to all the exclamation points and complaints of past racism. To me it's kind of too bad, because you might be right, but your presentation causes me to doubt your objectivity such that I don't trust your context.

I know you'll flip your lid over this, but someone has to say it, and in any case I really don't mind if you flip said lid.

Post like this was the primary reason for me creating my previous thread "Denial of the indigenous development of Ancient Egypt". Rather than accepting the fact that Ancient Egypt was indeed a product of Sub Saharan and Ancient Saharan Africans, the motive for relaying the truth is always called into question.

The question of why me or other persons who are either African or of African descent often argue this case with passion is asked. Other than simply wanted the truth to finally be recognized, why not answer this with a simple question. Would it make no difference is Roman society Caesar was played by a Taiwanese men in historical reenactments? Would it make no difference if Amerindians portrayed Heterodox and the ancient Greeks in reenactments? The question to both answers is yes, but when it comes to African History and African contribution to the world this is what happens.

It's almost humorous how indenial the West is when it comes to the Africanity of Ancient Egypt.


YouTube - The Real Scorpion King

In National Geographic documentary above ("The Real Scorpion King") this very issue is taken up in the opening scenes. With the narrator stating that early Egyptologist due to racism incorrectly credited an early wave of Europeans or Middle Easterners into the Nile Valley for the creation of Ancient Egypt, and that it was a product of Africans. Now from that opening statement describing racism towards African people, Black Africans are the only Africans to come to mind right? Well following that opening statement the documentary goes on to portray the founders of Ancient Egypt as Middle Easterners

With the plethora of evidence confirming who the Ancient Egyptians were and had the closest biological and cultural affinities towards, this is an example of blatant racism against Black Africans.

[Neuling]

I don't think they were black Africans, but there sure was some influence from black Africa in the southern parts of Egypt. Their language was not black African, but related to those from the Middle East. Why would Black Africans in Egypt speak a language like that? It's not that blacks from Sudan etc. didn't have their own languages back then...
I would not mind if they had been black, but I guess it is more racist to say they were than to say they were not. In my view it is based on the wish to claim that leading civilization in order to have something to be proud of and admired for by the whole world. Maybe all this is due to the weak self-esteem many blacks seem to have, which does not surprise me given the centuries of racism and humiliation they suffered.

[Irishtom29]

That's swell Slugger; it's aces with me if you guys get one once in awhile.

Though it's hard to picture Rameses in the The Ten Commandments played by Jimmy Walker rather than Yul Brynner.

[Louisvilleslugger]

Originally Posted by Neuling

I don't think they were black Africans

"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

"Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Ku****es, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans."
(S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 20-33)

I don't know of any Tropical Africans who aren't black.

but there sure was some influence from black Africa in the southern parts of Egypt.

Actually their culture was entirely African. Below is a documentary by re-known African Historian Basil Davidson in which he demonstrates this through first hand.


YouTube - Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms

Their language was not black African, but related to those from the Middle East. Why would Black Africans in Egypt speak a language like that?

I'm not sure what point you mean with this statement, but in anyway you're wrong.



"Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots. The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food." (Christopher Ehret (1996) "Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture." In Egypt in Africa Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press)[/quote]

Maybe all this is due to the weak self-esteem many blacks seem to have, which does not surprise me given the centuries of racism and humiliation they suffered.

It actually was Colonial racism that De-Africanized Ancient Egypt. I can't speak for all but most African Americans I know, know full well that they come from West Africa and have never claimed to be descendants of Kemet.

[Neuling]

Well, believe what you want, there is no point in discussing with afrocentrists...

[Louisvilleslugger]

Originally Posted by Neuling

Well, believe what you want, there is no point in discussing with afrocentrists...

"Afrocentric" right...

"It is not a question of "African" "influence"; ancient Egypt was organically African. Studying early Egypt in its African context is not "Afrocentric," but simply correct" - Shomarka Keita

[ABQConvict]

I find it somewhat disappointing that 'Afrocentrists' spend all their time trying to associate sub-Saharan Africans with ancient Egypt, a nation that for all of its advances was no different from every other highly stratified, oppressive, war-like, chattel slave holding regime in the world while ignoring every other culture in Africa.

Civilization is not the litmus for legitimacy or worth cultures.

[Neng.]

Apart from the fact that Egyptians were not black. There are thousand of pictures of Egyptians, extremally realistic pictures, it was an "added" service in the "mummifying industry". Those people are not black at all.

[eloy]

In one gold mask I have seen ... My face ! I am far . not the African.
Tell. What for in a coffin of the Pharaoh . Africans put heart and a liver from the Pharaoh.?

[Louisvilleslugger]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

I find it somewhat disappointing that 'Afrocentrists' spend all their time trying to associate sub-Saharan Africans with ancient Egypt, a nation that for all of its advances was no different from every other highly stratified, oppressive, war-like, chattel slave holding regime in the world while ignoring every other culture in Africa.

Civilization is not the litmus for legitimacy or worth cultures.

I find it sad that in light of such overwhelming irrefutable evidence in support of this fact Eurocentrics, often resort to the most childish antics to avoid conceding to this fact.

Then the buzzword 'Afrocentric' is always thrown around in this debate, but let's think logically about this. Why is stating the fact that an Ancient African civilization was created by more Southerly African people's Afrocentric? It's not like mainstream academia through a plethora of scientific and scholarly evidence doesn't support this fact.

It's time for the West to accept the fact that their "white washed" view of ancient Egypt as some Middle Eastern or European conception has been thoroughly debunked! A lot of people now often argue that Egypt was a multi racial civilization from it's beginnings and that is simply not true and not supported by an iota of scientific or archeological evidence. Egypt's origins and ethnicity lie to the South of it.