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From my limited knowledge of history I've determined that both of these nations controlled really large land masses for quite a long time each. They are also pretty close to each other. How have they gotten on historically and how do they get along now. How will/does Russia like the fact that China is emerging and has emerged as a power right next to them?
Although Im guessing that because most of Russia's large cities are closer to Europe than Asia they have always pointed their goals asspirations to the west? Will China's emergence make Russia focus more on the goings on in the East?
They dislike each other and always have. Racism and cultural differences both play a part. In Russia, you have a country that reached east to grab a vast wasteland and knows it might be hard to hold onto, yet contains vast resources that help it the country to thrive. In China, you have a country that has developed the marvelous tactic of throwing a hissy fit and claiming mortal insult to its ancient culture any time it doesn't get its way. Both sides tend to consider the other racial inferiors. What amazes me is that they haven't gone to full-dress war since the rise of the Chinese Republic and the USSR (both now succeeded, of course, by other governments that inherited the issues).
They dislike each other and always have. Racism and cultural differences both play a part. In Russia, you have a country that reached east to grab a vast wasteland and knows it might be hard to hold onto, yet contains vast resources that help it the country to thrive. In China, you have a country that has developed the marvelous tactic of throwing a hissy fit and claiming mortal insult to its ancient culture any time it doesn't get its way. Both sides tend to consider the other racial inferiors. What amazes me is that they haven't gone to full-dress war since the rise of the Chinese Republic and the USSR (both now succeeded, of course, by other governments that inherited the issues).
One needs to remember that Russians remember the Great Khan and his hordes that overan the Russian homeland. It took the Russians several hundred years of costly struggle to regain their independence from the Mongols which was acomplished by Czar Ivan IV (Ivan the Terrible). Russians then like Americas pioneers moved into the East (Siberia) and reached the Pacific in the 17th century. Then the Russians looked to the South and encountered the the Chinese a people who look a lot like Mongols.
The Chinese have a confident 4000 year old civilization that has had technical, economic and intellectual superiority for most of its history. The exception being from 1800 to 2000 AD. The Chinese divided the world into China and the worthless barbarian wastelands beyond the Chinese border. The Chinese are insular and inward looking. The Chinese solution to barbarians was to build a great 1500 mi wall along its northern and western frontier. The Chinese chose not to attack the barbarians and occupy places like Mongolia or Siberia. China had the means to expand through out Asia and into the Pacific but they chose not to. In the 12th century, China had ocean going ships, firearms and explosives and navigational skills sufficient to reach Africa, Europe and the Americas. They had these things several centuries before Europe. Did they exploit this advantage. Of course not. In fact the Ming emperor ordered such ships destroyed and made it a crime to build or use such ships. In the 18th century a Chinese emperor told a British ambassador that he saw no need for trade between Britain and China because he felt that China had no need for anything the British had to sell to the Chinese! With such a world view, the last few centuries were rough on the Chinese.
From my limited knowledge of history I've determined that both of these nations controlled really large land masses for quite a long time each. They are also pretty close to each other. How have they gotten on historically and how do they get along now. How will/does Russia like the fact that China is emerging and has emerged as a power right next to them?
Historically, Russia and China made contact in around mid 17th century, when Russian Cossacks reached the Pacific coast. Russians wanted to establish presence in the Amur valley but were repulsed by the then much more powerful Qing China. Both sides signed the Treaty of Nerchinsk deliniating borders and establishing relations.
Nothing much changed until around mid 1800's when power balance shifted to Russia while China declined. At the same time, all European powers became more interested in the Far East. In a series of new treaties, Russia was able to move the border significantly farther south and establish a sphere of influence in Manchuria (until Japan superseded them in 1906).
During the Soviet times, the relationship initially was good, with Stalin helping Mao and the USSR being analogous to an "older brother". Things changed very quickly after Nikita Khrushchev denounced Stalin, angering Mao and causing the famous Soviet-Chinese split. Mikhail Gorbachev and post-Soviet Russian leaders have mostly repaired that relationship
Today, attitudes in Russia are mixed. To this day, Russia sees the US as its main rival and potential enemy. In this context, some view China as a counterweight to the US. Economically, China is an important market for Russian raw materials, especially oil.
On the other hand, many Russians feel very vulnerable. Their eastern provinces are very sparsely populated while China has 10 times the population that of Russia. What's worse, Russian population is declining while the Chinese is growing. Many are afraid that Chinese illegal immigrants will simply settle in Siberia and the Far East, and that it is simply a matter of time before China will want to grab official Russian land.
As far as most Russians are concerned the Mongols, who came out of the area near china although they are not chinese, define asiatic society including china. Those who know the history of the mongols in Russia will know what that means.
The Russians are terrified of the Chinese aside from the racism, which is real enough. The NY Times correspondent to Moscow in the seventies wrote a book on Russia in which he commented on this. A story going around Russia at the time he was there went like this. Carter is walking with Brezhnev and he tell him (Brezhnev) that he had this dream in which people with red flags are running the entire world.
When Brezhneve asked what they are saying Carter responds, "I don't know, I don't speak Chinese."
Historically, Russia and China made contact in around mid 17th century, when Russian Cossacks reached the Pacific coast. Russians wanted to establish presence in the Amur valley but were repulsed by the then much more powerful Qing China. Both sides signed the Treaty of Nerchinsk deliniating borders and establishing relations.
Nothing much changed until around mid 1800's when power balance shifted to Russia while China declined. At the same time, all European powers became more interested in the Far East. In a series of new treaties, Russia was able to move the border significantly farther south and establish a sphere of influence in Manchuria (until Japan superseded them in 1906).
During the Soviet times, the relationship initially was good, with Stalin helping Mao and the USSR being analogous to an "older brother". Things changed very quickly after Nikita Khrushchev denounced Stalin, angering Mao and causing the famous Soviet-Chinese split. Mikhail Gorbachev and post-Soviet Russian leaders have mostly repaired that relationship
Today, attitudes in Russia are mixed. To this day, Russia sees the US as its main rival and potential enemy. In this context, some view China as a counterweight to the US. Economically, China is an important market for Russian raw materials, especially oil.
On the other hand, many Russians feel very vulnerable. Their eastern provinces are very sparsely populated while China has 10 times the population that of Russia. What's worse, Russian population is declining while the Chinese is growing. Many are afraid that Chinese illegal immigrants will simply settle in Siberia and the Far East, and that it is simply a matter of time before China will want to grab official Russian land.
Mr. Marbles, when you're not busy terrifying people staying in Kramer's apartment, you must be brushing up on your Sino-Russian history. This is a very well done summary.
I would add to this that the Chinese are very familiar with Russia's long-cultivated paranoia (as we are also familiar with here in Finland) and have, with the exception of a few near confrontations in the last century, taken some care to avoid raising the Russians' hackles.
But the Chinese play a very, very long game. They know they don't have to be overtly agressive to achieve their aims.
It seems as if Russia has historicaly used fear as a great motivator of its people. Whether it be the mighty French and German armies that were each turned back after feirce fighting. Or fear of the U.S during the cold war to spur great innovation initially. Now fear of China for whatever reason. It seems as if they use this as a propoganda aid to acomplish their goals. Although in cases such as the German invasion it truely was fight for survival. Maybe they have good reason to be suspicious of everyone.
I think the balance of power is pretty well established. The thing that keeps the Chinese from wanting to expand is that what is there of value to achieve? There are of course raw materials throughout the Asia Russian/Siberia area, but for the most part it is a little developed mostly barren landscape. It would be immensly difficult even in the modern age to invade Siberia and the benefit of doing so would certainly not outweigh the costs. The primary Russian oil fields are not in Siberia, but are much further to the west near European Russia.
While the Chinese may certainly entertain the idea of a little "lebensraum" I doubt Siberia would be their first choice. Besides, while the Russian military is certainly weaker then it was in the 80's during the Cold War, it is still immensly capable of defending Russian territory. Given the Chinese have a billion people to throw at the problem, but the Russians also have a large nuclear stockpile that I'm certain they would use if push came to shove.
An ascending China is certainly a problem for and rival to Russian influence in that area, but the Russian border territories hold little of value to even consider going to war over.
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In the 18th century a Chinese emperor told a British ambassador that he saw no need for trade between Britain and China because he felt that China had no need for anything the British had to sell to the Chinese!
