U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2010, 02:20 PM
 
65 posts, read 214,781 times
Reputation: 63

Advertisements

Basque is an isolated language, like many. It could be a pre indo-european language, herited from the neolithic settlers. If I don't mistake, the real curiosity of this language is the agglutination feature in a flexional languages "sea" (from Scandinavia to North Africa).
All the considerations about genetics makes me smile. In every region of the world, you will find a genetic particularity. But this kind of particularity (R1b or others) represents nothing in the whole of the human genome which is said to be close at 98 % of the chimpanzee.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-31-2010, 11:25 AM
 
5,510 posts, read 5,011,884 times
Reputation: 1693
Here are some links to physical anthropological work on the Iberian peninsula.

As I stated previously physical anthropology is an excellent way to trace population affinity through time because you're looking at human remains during different time periods.

Genetics is good but you're limited to current populations and there could have been demographic shifts in the past that may not be readily visible in current populations.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,444 posts, read 25,225,569 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
----

Modern basques are different from ancient basques described by Romans.

The tribe known as Basques, not different from other Northen Spanish tribes, were crushed by the Romans and deported to the south, to Navarre.

Vasconia was settled by two Celt tribes that assimilated the Basque language, Vardulae and Caristiae.


Their language was the language spoken in most of non-Celtic Spain, Iberian, Northern Iberian. A non-Indoeuropean language and a language isolate that has yet to be "cracked".

All the big fuzz about "Basquism" is new, they were always loyal Castillian subjects and were known for having many children and being poor as rats. During the last part of the XIXth Century, the Basque country became very rich because of the iron ore, foundry, coal and proximity to England and this brought all their "romantic nationalism".
Didn't the Basques supporting the Carlists in the Carlist Wars (the second of which was the last war of royal succession in Europe's history) which caused the fueros to be revoked produce Basque nationalism? (The French Basques had their fueros revoked after the French Revolution when all regional privileges were abolished, but Basque nationalism has never been as strong in the French Basque Region as in the Spanish Basque Region).
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2010, 04:16 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 4,622,891 times
Reputation: 1022
Majoun

Well, not really.

Carlist and Foralists were traditionalist and ultra-catholic. Basque and Navarre Carlists and Foralists (Requetés) supported Franco and they gained back their fueros after the end of the Civil War.

On the other hand, Basque Nationalism (PNV) is "bourgeois" and also catholic. They are not foralist, but independentist. They wanted a independent country with a parliament and commons shaped around the lines of the UK. ETA was a scission of PNV that took place during the early 40's when the CIA trained basque nationalists to attack Franco, a little later Franco became an ally of the western world, and this group evolved independently.

French Basque country is a traditional region whose economy revolves around tourism and agriculture, Spanish Basque country is a heavy industrial area with many immigrants from the rest of Spain.

The emergence of PNV came about because the tremendous wealth generated in the Basque provinces due to their iron foundries and industry. All those "bourgeois" created all the ethnic mumble jumbo to hide their rather humble origins as shepherds and loyal Castilian subjects.

Last edited by Manolón; 08-20-2010 at 04:30 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2010, 05:38 AM
 
13,138 posts, read 37,714,152 times
Reputation: 12170
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
If you're a huge carnivore like I am you'll be quite fond of Basque cuisine. Great Basque restaurants in the Central Valley of California and in Reno, NV (shout out to Louis', home of the best Picon Punch West of the Pecos).
LOL ... maybe that's why they are carnivore's since they along with the Sami's are probably the two oldest surving hunter gatherer peoples in Europe today
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2010, 05:54 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 4,622,891 times
Reputation: 1022
Who said that, a guy named Arzalluz? They are just inbreds, just like the ones you have in the Appalachians.

Last edited by Manolón; 08-20-2010 at 06:04 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2010, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Charleston
485 posts, read 925,827 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
----

Basque are inbred Iberians. Their language is modern Iberian, ancient Iberian was also a Isolate.

Vascones were an Iberian tribe, some say partially adscribed to the Celtic culture. They were beaten by the Romans and expelled to Navarre (where the real Basques live).

The current inhabitants of the Basque Country are not "Ethnic Basques", the Romans settled the area with two Celtic tribes that became culturally Basque by diffusion, Vardulos and Caristios.

As to their singularity, just poppicock. Spain is packed with remote valleys with peculiar populations of inbreds, but of course, they don't have a harbour, iron ore and coal.
Their language is not modern Iberian. Though there have defintely been borrowings, the Basque language and Iberian are distinct.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,444 posts, read 25,225,569 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post

On the other hand, Basque Nationalism (PNV) is "bourgeois" and also catholic. They are not foralist, but independentist.
So why is the slogan of the PNV, "God and the old laws"? (The "old laws" refers to the fueros).


Quote:
They wanted a independent country with a parliament and commons shaped around the lines of the UK. ETA was a scission of PNV that took place during the early 40's when the CIA trained basque nationalists to attack Franco, a little later Franco became an ally of the western world, and this group evolved independently.
I thought ETA started in the '60s not the '40s, and was started up by Marxist students who disliked the PNV's Christian Democratic bourgeois centrism. ISTR reading they were originally called Aberri Ta Askatasuna (Fatherland And Freedom) but since "ata" means "duck" in Euskera they changed the name to Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque Country And Freedom).

Quote:
French Basque country is a traditional region whose economy revolves around tourism and agriculture, Spanish Basque country is a heavy industrial area with many immigrants from the rest of Spain.
And more populated than the French Basque region, considering that Bayonne, Anglet, and Biarritz put together have a smaller population than Bilbao or San Sebastian.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2010, 08:01 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 4,622,891 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchior6 View Post
Their language is not modern Iberian. Though there have defintely been borrowings, the Basque language and Iberian are distinct.
----

Melchior

There were hundreds of Iberian languages with different origins, Iberian is not indoeuropean. Basque was probably a isolated Iberian language. Of course, nobody knows since there a very few inscription and the Iberian language has not been deciphered yet...

More so, the only Iberian inscriptions (not Celtic-Iberians) come from the Mediterranean. I don't think that Mediterranean Iberian had much relation whatsoever with the language spoken in the Basque Country.

In fact, there are very large regions in the north of Spain beyond the fringes of Celtic language where nobody knows what language they had (part of Asturias, Cantabria, Leon, etc).

Last edited by Manolón; 08-24-2010 at 08:12 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2010, 08:19 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 4,622,891 times
Reputation: 1022
The "old laws" refers to the fueros).

________________

They were probably mimmicking the Carlist mouvement 100 years ago. Carlist and PNV are not friends.

________________
I thought ETA started in the '60s not the '40s, and was started up by Marxist students who disliked the PNV's Christian Democratic bourgeois centrism. ISTR reading they were originally called Aberri Ta Askatasuna (Fatherland And Freedom) but since "ata" means "duck" in Euskera they changed the name to Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque Country And Freedom).
________________

CIA trained PNV militants in Paris during the early 40's hoping to use them on a eventual invasion of Spain....When Franco became an ally, they were abandoned with their training and weapons....
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top