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Old 05-18-2010, 09:41 AM
 
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Along the same lines of the thread about the ''Who Were the Sea Peoples'' and while none of us on here probably know the answer as to who the Basques are and where they come from however i'm still interested in everyone's take . (Yes that's you also neng )

A few things we do know and that is the Basque males are very high in Y-DNA R1b as that tells me that they did arrive somewhere east of the Black Sea region and migrated on a southernly route through Anatolia where they crossed into europe and made their way northwest eventually to the Basque region and then possibly migrated north to the ''celtic countries'' later on. However the females are highest in mtDNA that is still considered Paleo Europeans (along with the Sami's) and on top of that their language is a non Indo-European.

So if the males were migrating nomads and the females are Iberian hunter gatherer's then what happened to the Basque males ?? Did the migrating invaders kill off all the males and intermingle with the females and hence we have such a separation of the DNA between male and female as no other group has such a high proportion of this with exception to the Scandanavian Sami who's females are similar to Basque females.

As for their language ... well i assume the migrating males shunned their Indo-European tongue(s) and adopted the female tongue of those Paleo Basques. I'm still perplexed as to how they remained so isolated from all the different migrating peoples over the thousands of years to keep their ancient mtDNA and Basque tongue??
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:59 AM
 
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The biggest reason I've heard put forth as to how they maintained their separate identity for so long (as with many people who have) is that they were relatively geographically isolated. The area of the Pyrenees is a pretty rugged area that is difficult to cross.

Your question about killing all the males sounds as plausible as any, and was a tactic pursued by some ancient people.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:50 AM
 
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You can't overlook the issue of the equivalent of a "DNA Adam" in the Basque population. Given it's isolation, it seem possible that there could have been a genetic singularity in the population that doesn't mean all the males were R1b.
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skinem View Post
The biggest reason I've heard put forth as to how they maintained their separate identity for so long (as with many people who have) is that they were relatively geographically isolated. The area of the Pyrenees is a pretty rugged area that is difficult to cross.
Not to mention that the Basques were known as being good fighters who fought off conquerors. Even the Romans only were able to incorporate the Basque region (much larger at the time than today - at that time areas now part of Gascony, Catalonia, and Aragon were Basque) into their empire by leaving the Basques alone to run their own affairs with the stipulation that the Basques would have their own regiments in the Roman army.

The remoteness of the Basque region from the rest of Europe may be why Basques were attracted to the most remote parts of the Spanish empire in the New World, like Chile, Argentina, and California.

There are some Basque words that are also found in Japanese, which is one of the linguistic mysteries that no one has ever been able to figure out. The most common theory has to do with the Ainu, but it still seems inexplicable.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:45 AM
 
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Your question about killing all the males sounds as plausible as any, and was a tactic pursued by some ancient people.
It's just a thought .... as it does seem strange about how the male's are disimilar to the female's DNA in the haplogroupings or at least from what i've been reading about it.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rhinestone View Post
You can't overlook the issue of the equivalent of a "DNA Adam" in the Basque population. Given it's isolation, it seem possible that there could have been a genetic singularity in the population that doesn't mean all the males were R1b.
That deserves a rep as i never thought about that as way to think outside the box man
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Old 05-19-2010, 03:09 PM
 
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I like to read about the Basque and R1B origins. First R1B was thought to originate in the Iberian peninsula , now it seems that R1B originated in the Near East . I haven't read anything that says R1B comes from the Black Sea area.

The language is obviously a holdout from indigenous West Europeans.

Could R1B be themale haplotype of the pre IndoEuropeans males?

or

Could R1B carrying males be responsible for spreading Indo European language in Western Europe?

The Basque have very high R1B frequencies, higher than the majority of Western Euro Indo European speakers, with only the Irish having higher percentages. So assuming the R1B clades found in Western Europe is associated with Indo European expansion, it is odd that the Basque retain their pre Indo-European language, because you would think the IE males would never acquiesce to retaining the old non IE tongue.

R1B like any haplogroup is older than a language associated with it. While R1B is concentrated in Western Europe, it is found in West Central Africa and an older R1B is found in the Near East.
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Old 05-19-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:06 PM
 
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You might post an inquiry in the California Forum. Forgive me if I am not correct but while in Bakersfield ? a few years ago I watch an hour long local PBS show about the Basques. They came there over 100 years ago as sheep herders and much of the Traditional Culture is intact. I have friends who are Basque, but they are in Spain.
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:15 AM
 
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Basques are well known as shepherds in the west with some of their descendants still tending herds in remote parts of the US with many living in what amounts to covered wagons for months at a time.

Eastern Oregon still has some of these as well as a number of geographical areas named for them, such as Basque Wells.
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