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I'm starting to help a good friend redo his kitchen. We're both new at this, so I figured, why not post here. He currently lives in a 1936 Cape with plaster walls, and the kitchen is in dire need of repair, though the appliances are new. Cabniets, countertops, flooring, backsplash...Him and I would do most of the demolition.
I know it's hard to describe without a photo, but I'll do my best...
The kitchen is currently an L shape, 10.5x10.5. He has a fridge and cupboard on the opposite side of the kitchen from the exterior wall (along the stairs), and a door leading to the back stoop along the exterior wall (obviously). He also has a strange little room diagonal to the kitchen that could make it an EIK with a small table, but there is a huge radiator in the way.
His idea is to close up the backdoor leading outside, add another window, and make the kitchen a U shape. By doing this, he could put the fridge at the end of the U, and have a 12" pantry along the opposite wall to increase functionality (he currently has no pantry). He could add sliding doors leading outside from the dining room, where there is currently a picture window. I also suggested getting rid of the radiator and putting in a baseboard so he could put a small table in that odd corner for an EIK. He's looking at corian countertops since granite is pricey, and tile flooring/backsplash.
I see the potential for REALLY BAD MISTAKES to be made here.
#1 NO ONE, and I MEAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE would EVER be happy in a home that had the BACK DOOR ELIMINATED. That would kill access to the yard / garage from the kitchen -- probably not even CODE unless the house was so tiny as to be not worth changing... If there is a stoop that probably means stairs and to replace that means back breaking demo and costly construction of replacement. Even if you have skills to build a nice deck that drives price of project up a ton...
#2 Sliders are not cheap, are far less popular than they once were, suck energy, are neither practical as an everyday means of entry (groceies??? bad weather???) nor are they partcularly secure
#3 Adding windows is not a picnic. In a house with plaster walls it can be a real crap shoot -- if the framing is non-standard the ability to do the proper build-out can easily exceed the total budget your pal has.
#4 Corian is not a bargain choice, and frankly it think that, given its lack of "buyer appeal" it is huge mistake. If I asked 100 potential buyers how they felt about Corian counters in the kitchen, and what it was worth them, I am sure 90+ of the would tell me "I don't like it and would probably worry it would cost too much to rip out so I'd get a different house."
#5 Huge radiator probably means HUGE headaches -- replacing radiators with baseboard hot water unit is not something that many people would consider and upgrade. You destroy charm of preWWII home and are left with antiquated tech from the 60s. Yuck. Better solution is to redo to radiant hot water, especially if you are serrious about tile BUT that is problem ...
#6 Tile is a bad choice for kitchens, especially ones that are likely to be COLD due to old construction / lack of insulation
Budget is probably not unreasonable to do a NICE limited overhaul of kitchen, especially if appliances are already upgraded.
To piggy back on Chet's post, I gather from your post that neither of you is a contractor or trained in construction. You are talking about a major renovation. That's a big red flag. Together, you may know how to install plumbing, wiring, etc... but there is a LOT to know about kitchen redesign that only comes from education or years of industry experience. If you try to do this yourself without that knowledge, you will likely encounter several character-building, learning opportunities along the way. These "opportunities" have the potential to blow your modest budget right out of the water.
Your first obstacle will be that your local permit office will require stamped drawings in order for this work to be approved. Don't skip the permit!
Here is why you WANT a permit:
Future home buyers will want to see the permit. This ensures them that the work was inspected.
Future buyers also often want to know that the work was done by a GC and not by an inexperienced homeowner
Do yourself a huge favor and hire a KB designer to do a floor plan that will meet your budget. Designers are not so expensive as people think they are. Most designers make their profit on the products that they specify by selling them to you at retail (which you will pay anyway) and getting a discount from the manufacturer.
It won't cost you anything to meet with a good NKBD licensed designer and get a quote. They will also help you understand if you can get what you want for your budget.
I see the potential for REALLY BAD MISTAKES to be made here.
#1 NO ONE, and I MEAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE would EVER be happy in a home that had the BACK DOOR ELIMINATED. That would kill access to the yard / garage from the kitchen -- probably not even CODE unless the house was so tiny as to be not worth changing... If there is a stoop that probably means stairs and to replace that means back breaking demo and costly construction of replacement. Even if you have skills to build a nice deck that drives price of project up a ton...
#2 Sliders are not cheap, are far less popular than they once were, suck energy, are neither practical as an everyday means of entry (groceies??? bad weather???) nor are they partcularly secure
#3 Adding windows is not a picnic. In a house with plaster walls it can be a real crap shoot -- if the framing is non-standard the ability to do the proper build-out can easily exceed the total budget your pal has.
#4 Corian is not a bargain choice, and frankly it think that, given its lack of "buyer appeal" it is huge mistake. If I asked 100 potential buyers how they felt about Corian counters in the kitchen, and what it was worth them, I am sure 90+ of the would tell me "I don't like it and would probably worry it would cost too much to rip out so I'd get a different house."
#5 Huge radiator probably means HUGE headaches -- replacing radiators with baseboard hot water unit is not something that many people would consider and upgrade. You destroy charm of preWWII home and are left with antiquated tech from the 60s. Yuck. Better solution is to redo to radiant hot water, especially if you are serrious about tile BUT that is problem ...
#6 Tile is a bad choice for kitchens, especially ones that are likely to be COLD due to old construction / lack of insulation
Budget is probably not unreasonable to do a NICE limited overhaul of kitchen, especially if appliances are already upgraded.
Thanks for the detailed response.
1 & 2. Back door/sliders - the rooms are very small in the house - the back door would really just be "moved" 8 feet over from where it currently is, not eliminated. It would be in the small dining room, not the kitchen. What about french doors over sliders? The "secure" issue was something I mentioned to him as well...
3. Would it be just as difficult if the window fit the width of where the door previously was? That's where the window would go.
4. Interesting take. So you'd say he would be better off going with laminate or spend the extra for granite then...
5. He already has a hot water unit in the house, not steam. There is also a pellet stove in the fireplace.
6. If you think tile is bad, what's your suggestion? Hardwood is expensive and linoleum isn't the nicest...
Thank you, thewayiseethings. This isn't a DIY project. We were just going to do the simple demolition (getting rid of cabinets, wood paneling, etc) as he has a friend of a friend (licensed contractor) in mind to do most of it.
Thank you, thewayiseethings. This isn't a DIY project. We were just going to do the simple demolition (getting rid of cabinets, wood paneling, etc) as he has a friend of a friend (licensed contractor) in mind to do most of it.
That's good to know. Will your contractor do the space plan for you and order the new fixtures? If so, I'd say you are good as long as you complete the planning phase before moving into demo.
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