Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Helping the folks renovate their awful 70's kitchen.
Right now, it just seems like the worst possible layout. Attached are the new and old layouts.
The old layout makes for a cramped eating area and even more cramped cooking area. The wing of counter where the sink and dishwasher are bad enough in making the whole living/kitchen space feel smaller, but to add insult to injury - there's cabinets above it! There's also cabinets above the island. Ugh.
Anyway, my suggested layout seems to be a no brainer, but wanted to see if anyone had other suggestions.
Btw, envisioning full height cabinets around the fridge vs. more counterspace for more storage.
Like this, but imagine the refrigerator flush with them.
You complain about the current location of the sink and dishwasher but the current location of the stove would bother me because it's at the end and doesn't have counter space on the sides.
You're losing a lot of counter space with your new design. You're going to hate having that diswasher behind the sink. As a matter of fact, I don't think there's room to stand at the sink once the dishwasher door is open. The dishwasher being to the left of the sink is a problem too.
Since you have a dining room, I'd eliminate the kitchen table entirely, add more cabinets and counter space, move the sink and dishwasher to the other side of the room, and have a breakfast bar where the current sink peninsula is located.
You really need to think this through. You might hate your kitchen now, but I fear you'll hate it worse with the proposed changes. You're not going to have much counterspace. The addition of the wall oven is not helping.
I would be so frustrated working in a kitchen with either design. I want my fridge, stove, sink, garbage, microwave, dishwasher, prep space (I use my island and counter for prep/cooling areas), access to the things I cook with - I want them all within a step or two of where I'm making dinner - both designs are inefficient - find a way to bring your fridge into your prep area. Having the fridge across the kitchen from your prep and cooking area and having the fridge blocked by the island - nightmare. Yikes!
I do like how your reversing the layout..it really opens it up. I think if you put the sink where you have the cooktop..the dishwasher where you have the sink..and the cooktop where you have the dishwasher..it would be a more functional design. The dishwasher is most convenient when beside the sink. It will open with out hitting the island. With the stove on the left..you have plenty of counter space for prepping.
Your request is a tall order. While some Designers can provide you some great ideas based on your drawing, I personally need to be in the room to feel it and see it and touch it. Then ask the homeowner lots of questions about your family's lifestyle. Your kitchen can be drop dead gorgeous but if you have to trip over the island to get to the oven then what good is it? There are many factors to design the perfect kitchen. And guess what. It's rare when I can do just that. Why? Because I did not design the house structure. I only have what's given to me such as the room size, placement of windows, doors, utilities, ceiling height etc... A little tidbit we don't always tell people is that trying to achieve a good working triangle is not even possible all too many times. Ha....don't tell anyone though. As long as the client is happy and can move about with ease while performing their kitchen duties then we are all happy.
So what you are showing is basically a footprint of the cabinets and appliances. Which really is not enough to go on. But lets give it a try, The old layout is despicable, your new layout is much improved.............. I just wrote a whole bunch of things and just erased them all. I'm just too uncomfortable making suggestions to a room I never walked in. Lets just say the only things I don't like is the sink being too close to the range top. Can it be moved to the corner or left wall? You may be restricted by that window placement. See what I mean? You may have to lay the kitchen out based on factors not easily changeable such as that window.
Your fridge, I like that with a fridge flanked by 2 pantries. But you wish for a counter depth fridge. While that is always my dream to do it that way, keep in mind a counter depth fridge starts at $5 grand and quickly climbs. We often steal 6-8" from the wall behind the fridge from the room behind it so we can set back a standard fridge. Often times there is a garage behind the fridge so we just build a little bump out for just the fridge.
Sorry I didn't have all the answers you seek but hopefully gave you some idea what we deal with while working with not so perfect rooms. Your design is not so bad at all. Now if you will add some multi height and depth combos to your wall cabs..............Yeah!!!
Counter-depth fridges do not start at 5 grand unless they have gone up a couple thousand dollars in the last 3 years. We have bought counter-depth fridges for our last two houses and paid less than $3,000 - both are around 25 cf. Our last home had a kitchen that was gutted to the studs and remodeled - a cabinet was built to house the counter-depth fridge and everything fit perfectly. I like how tall the counter-depth fridges are and would never go back to a kitchen where the fridge protrudes into any open area.
The other thing is - if you buy all or most of your appliances from one source, be sure to ask for a 10% discount. We asked and received a 10% discount while buying appliances for our last two kitchens.
I also disagree that the perfect working triangle is difficult to achieve. My last two kitchens have had the perfect working triangle - no more than 2 steps to anything I need while cooking - both are spacious kitchens.
You complain about the current location of the sink and dishwasher but the current location of the stove would bother me because it's at the end and doesn't have counter space on the sides.
You're losing a lot of counter space with your new design. You're going to hate having that diswasher behind the sink. As a matter of fact, I don't think there's room to stand at the sink once the dishwasher door is open. The dishwasher being to the left of the sink is a problem too.
Since you have a dining room, I'd eliminate the kitchen table entirely, add more cabinets and counter space, move the sink and dishwasher to the other side of the room, and have a breakfast bar where the current sink peninsula is located.
You really need to think this through. You might hate your kitchen now, but I fear you'll hate it worse with the proposed changes. You're not going to have much counterspace. The addition of the wall oven is not helping.
Dishwasher location is a good point. Not good. I'll make some revisions.
I am no professional designer but the first thing that popped into my mind as DH and I have done quite a few home reno's, is moving plumbing, electrical and so forth can be a nightmare or impossible. Sometimes the structure itself simply is flawed to begin with or wasn't designed to meet the needs of today's families. Its can be a real bummer but a nice creative challenge designing something new around major things you cannot change. I think the working triangle is over rated and when I say this, I have seen people so insistent on a working triangle where it doesn't work in the space. They end up working harder to move around in a kitchen. Case in my point, my mother has one of the smallest kitchens I have ever seen. 9 x 11 which includes an eating area (no options on moving the table anywhere else in the house). Basically her kitchen is 9 x 6. The previous owners changed it from a galley kitchen to a working triangle. Taking an already impossible small kitchen and making it even less functional because someone said "the major rule is the triangle". What a nightmare. The fridge barely clears the front of the stove. The stove door barely clears the fridge. The sink was moved from its original spot under the window to the other wall. So now the window is partly over the stove. She constantly asks me for advice on how to change it, organize it etc and the only thing I can think of is ripping everything out and making it a very small galley kitchen again. I might actually post pics of it as some point. I think it would be the ultimate design challenge.
So back your post...is there a door that leads to the deck from the kitchen? If you take out the considerably larger window, how will this effect the exterior of the home? Is it sided, brick? Do you have more photos? I agree with Desertsun, I have to be in the room to get the feel and flow. More pictures might help though. What are the room dims?
Last edited by fallingwater; 11-20-2011 at 12:30 PM..
Reason: more thoughts.
Any way you can open the wall up behind the fridge to recess it? Also, to HOPES point, I guess the dishwasher location is one of those which way to hang the TP is correct questions. I am right handed and in both my first home and now this one, I put the dishwasher to the left of my sink. Reason? being righty I scrape the plate, rinse and my left hand is cleaner than the right and I just place it in the dishwasher and don't have to dry or rinse grease or anything off that hand. I have suggested this to many friends and they have now gone to the left. Neither is wrong just what you feel comfortable with.
Our kitchen has a similar layout, however the minor changes make it very functional. In the first layout, our stove would be in the middle of that long run of counter, not at the end, basically where you have it in the second but our sink is in the corner of the cabinets, not in the middle of one of them. The dishwasher is where your sink is in the first diagram and where your DW is, we have a double door pantry cabinet.
On the fridge wall in your first, that is pretty much what we have but again, another double door pantry cabinet.
Our island doesn't have any seating (which I do not like) but it has cabinets all the way around the island. I really like the layout of our kitchen and we can get several people in there doing several parts of the meal prep at a time.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The dishwasher is most convenient when beside the sink. It will open with out hitting the island. With the stove on the left..you have plenty of counter space for prepping.
She constantly asks me for advice on how to change it, organize it etc and the only thing I can think of is ripping everything out and making it a very small galley kitchen again. I might actually post pics of it as some point. I think it would be the ultimate design challenge. 
