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Old 09-24-2014, 06:53 AM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
Reputation: 37


We are remodeling the kitchen & adjacent living room(eventually informal dining room). Kitchen is about 15 x 10.

Here is the layout. Sorry about the blue marks on layout. Cabinet guy started drawing on back of it. Also, I think he forgot that there will be walls put up in front of log walls, so his measurements are off. I'm not sure how much the walls will stick out. I'm saying 4-5 inches?

Kitchen Design Help Needed!-kitchen-blueprint-layout-3-bigger-1.jpg

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Kitchen Design Help Needed!-kitchen-living-room-demo-6-smaller

Kitchen Design Help Needed!-looking-into-kitchen-other-side-living

Kitchen Design Help Needed!-looking-into-living-room-kitchen.jpg

We have 2 very tall, low windows on the back exterior 15 ft. wall. As of now the stove is between the windows. There will be cabinets above and counters on either side. All doors and windows are staying as they are. We will be getting new doors and the windows have already been replaced with new ones since photos were taken.

The fridge doesn't work anywhere other than in corner to right of right window(fridge will be in corner of right wall, facing range counter). If we put the fridge(36" FD) anywhere else, it either sticks out way too much or we lose a lot of counter & cabinets. With it in corner, along with a corner sink on right wall(10' foot wall) in other corner, we get the most counter space. There is a window above counter btwn fridge & sink which looks out to our narrow front porch. The porch goes the length of the kitchen & living room, & the 1/2 behind the kitchen will be turned into walk-in pantry.

There will be upper cabinets to left of sink(next to window),a wall with counter, garbage, dishwasher & upper cabinets to right of sink (layout has dishwasher to left of sink, but we switched it).
On left wall there is a door to basement in corner right by the long window.

Wall btwn kitchen & living room came down at demo. I do not want a completely open concept & like a wall(6'3") btwn kitchen & living room by sink, where I can have counter/drawers & upper cabinets. This now leaves about 8' 9" on rest of kitchen/living room wall(left 1/2) that is open.

We will have counter/drawers & uppers on left wall. Originally, we wanted a 42" high peninsula with 34" deep wood top, that would start at left corner of kitchen/living room wall, then 36" entrance, then wall by sink. Counters on left wall would have gone under peninsula We also wanted stools on both sides of peninsula, since kitchen table will be gone(living room will eventualy be informal dining room, but not for some time. We have a 12yr. old daughter, so we need a table for her to do school projects etc. We like the idea of stools.

Peninsula won't work as 42" high & we can't fit more than 2 small stools on living room side & maybe one in kitchen. Basement wall counter has to be shortened to have a decent walkway between that counter and stove counter. By shorting it & changing 42" high peninsula to 36" high, with basement counter and peninsula attached forming an L, there would be very little counter on basement wall.

I could attach "peninsula" to wall to right of sink, leaving 36" entrance to left by basement counter. Some people say to have L that turns into kitchen from wall with dishwasher & have 3 stools on side by entrance(stools would face fridge wall). I don't like it coming way into kitchen, since kitchen is so small.

One other possible idea is putting the fridge between windows and stove in corner(not my first choice). If the sink was under the window, there wouldn't be a lot of room on either side of the stove.

Have I lost you yet? Confused? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:51 AM
Location: Wonderland
50,252 posts, read 39,878,451 times
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I think the layout is really good. The only thing I don't much care for, but I don't like them in general, is that corner sink - corner sinks are notorious space wasters. But maybe that doesn't bother you - and you do already have lots of storage space in the kitchen. Plus I can see why it's put in the corner like that due to the placement of other appliances that seem to need to be where they are.

I really, really like your breakfast bar area and the cabinets above that adjacent part of the counter top. Is this going to be your baking/mixing area?

I see that you don't really have room for a pantry. Is there an adjacent closet or area that you can use for a pantry? What about the area under the stairs? Is it possible to maximize that area with shelving to use for a pantry and kitchen storage?
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:13 AM
28,453 posts, read 73,421,830 times
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The windows are NOT all that unusual at all. You absolutely COULD have counter-tops under one or both of them, I would recommend MOVING the fridge out of the corner and to the the wall that currently is shown as only having cabinets. I would also move the SINK out of the CORNER -- the corner is a TERRIBLE placement -- much better to have it roughly centered on the back wall UNDER THE WINDOW as you currently have in the "gutted out" setup -- window OVER sink is always best if you can do it and you can. DON'T MESS THIS UP!

The range is fine between the windows but if you extend the counter under the one window and then around that whole corner where the fridge is currently shown you will GREATLY expand workspace and make the whole kitchen much more functional. Believe me you are WRONG that the fridge "works" in the corner -- it does no such thing! That placement creates a dead end that makes it hard to get things into / out of fridge, uses 10" of filler AND creates barriers to the windows AS WELL AS forces the sink into the goofy corner configuration.

Use the software to re-draw the corner countertop & fridge as I suggest and I guarantee you will have MUCH MORE usable work area on EITHER SIDE of the sink which is vital for prep & clean-up as well as increasing the efficiency of the area under the window that would be to the right side of the stove. Dishwasher would be to the left of sink as you face it and you could get a lazy Susan or similar pull out in the corner(s). LOTS MORE BASE STORAGE!!! A corner sink base wastes a TON of space and is only a "last resort" as it is always a compromise with the dead area behind it!

Your fears of the "fridge sticking out too much" are over blown. There is A WHOLE LOT of free space in the middle of this kitchen as shown in the overhead plan view. The fridge will work FINE if it is the wall opposite the back window is. If you really want a counterdepth fridge go buy one... Is there anyway to steal a little space from under the stair and create a bit of a recess?

DO NOT even think of having window directly over stove -- huge potential for mess and unsafe to open window!

The only way you could realistically get any type of stool area in this whole plan is to have sink under window and have the EL- area to the right of the sink setup with stools. As shown there is already over 82" of space there. I would probably shorten the 48" wide base show projecting from the other wall, perhaps shift even MORE to the side projecting from the back wall...

You have about 11.5'x16' to work with, that is a GOOD chunk of space. I have seen much better layouts in a tighter space. The designer has not yet really given you an optimal setup. I really do not think you need walls that 4" deep in front of the nice log walls. I have seen folks leave some exposed area and it is nice. If you want finished drywall to achieve a different look it would only be laid on nailers and only take a couple of inches.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:13 AM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
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The KD is ME! We have a budget and can't afford to hire a KD.

The basement door is to the right on the left wall, right by that long, low window, and the basement steps are directly under the steps that go upstairs. I cannot recess the fridge into any of the walls and we do not want, nor can we afford a counter depth fridge. If I put the fridge on the left(basement wall) and leave the stove between the windows, it would be a very tight space between stove counter and fridge to get to the basement, plus I'd lose my counter/drawers and uppers on the basement wall which I really want. The only other place I can figure out for the fridge, would be between the two windows. Then where would the stove go?

The long windows are only 22 inches from the floor, so if the stove stays between the windows, I can't have a counter below the window being how low the windows are, and I don't want to block the window with a counter in front of it.

Yes, I understand compromises have to be made. If the fridge were between the windows and the sink under the window, where would the stove go?

Also, We really want and need a peninsula with a deep top or "table" and like the idea of stools. We need it because until the LR is turned into the informal dining room, which might not be for quite some time, we need something big enough. We'd like to maybe have it on LR wall attached to counter on right or left of entrance, with it raised slightly in order to put a wood top on it.

Last edited by Kathy246; 09-24-2014 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:45 AM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
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I totally understand that this is a very difficult kitchen to design and some compromises have to be made. Any other ideas would be appreciated! Thanks!

BTW, We are exposing what log we can above and below the long windows to keep with the style of the house(built in 1842). Everywhere else needs drywall for cabinets etc, backsplash etc. That is also why we want to keep the original style of the two long windows and not block either of them. The entire LR will have all log walls exposed.

Last edited by Kathy246; 09-24-2014 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:04 AM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
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If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks!
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Old 09-25-2014, 12:48 PM
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Nice plan for a new normal kitchen but I want to ask about the home. How old is it, what was it, is it one build or several, what is the rest of the home, are the walls weather sound or leaky?

This is so interesting. Do you not want to retain the rough characteristics? Have you considered a self contained island and open shelving to leave the walls?
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:01 PM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
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Kayekaye, it was built in 1842. The kitchen and living room side were the first house and then another house(The bedrooms-2 doors on either side of TV) was attached. The mudroom(main entrance-door in photo), front porch(on other side of LR) and bathroom were added later. The walls are weather sound, but we do get water in the basement when we have a bad storm.

We are trying to maintain the original characteristics and expose as much of the log as possible. We don't care for open shelving, so we'll need drywall almost everywhere in the kitchen. We'll have the log exposed above and below the long windows. All the log walls in the LR will be exposed. Upstairs on LR/kitchen side is one big room that was the attic, but will be our bedroom with all the log exposed, and the other side we are almost done remodeling. There is an office space and our daughter's bedroom. There are steps up to what was the attic and steps in our bedroom downstairs, that go to the office and daughter's room. There was no door to get from one side to the other upstairs, so my husband cut the log and put one in.

When you say self contained island, do you mean in the middle of the room? If so, I don't care for an island(even small) in a smaller kitchen. I still don't know where anything should go, since the first plan is too chopped up.

If you have any other ideas of how to do things and where things should go, I'd love to hear what you or anyone else thinks!
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:25 AM
Location: Lake Mary
13 posts, read 12,551 times
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Your designs are really good & other members have given you a nice idea as well ...
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:20 AM
99 posts, read 82,965 times
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I'm having a problem with where everything should go. If I put the stove between the windows, where we really want it, then where does the fridge go and still give me enough counter and cabinets? I guess it's not right to have it in the corner by the window and it would stick out a lot on basement(left) wall. With it on basement wall, it would give me a narrower path to basement between fridge and stove, plus I'd lose the counter and cabinets I really want on the basement wall. If the sink were under the window with the fridge to the right, I'd lose the wall and all the counter and cabinets to right of sink(I want the kitchen partially closed by sink area).

If the fridge were in between the windows, I don't know where to go with the stove. I'm not sure if it would be right to put it in the corner to left of sink. I'd have at least 9-10 inches between stove and wall and about the same between stove and sink, if sink were under the window, but it would still be in the corner and then with the fridge right there, I don't know if there would be a lot of room when opening the oven.

I still can't figure out where to put everything and still get the same amount or more counter/drawer and upper cabinet space that I'd have with the original layout, which can't happen, since the fridge should not be in the corner and the bar/peninsula isn't exactly right. By the way, if I haven't mentioned, I don't want anything in front of either of the long windows. We want to be able to see both windows.

I'm open to any ideas. The more ideas, the better!

Last edited by Kathy246; 09-26-2014 at 07:09 AM..
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