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Thanks for explaining. I would be picky about the final look. What she wanted would drive me nuts, lol. I also can't stand the different grains in wood cabinets. That's why I like to see all of them before I buy them. Can't have things crooked or mismatched.
It used to drive me crazy(well still does) when I see someone install a refrigerator and the handle is on the wrong side Don't people realize the handle can usually be changed? I don't see that too much anymore because a lot of people like double doors.
Whataya mean by different grains? I ask because the vast majority of people say they like wood but they really don't. What they really want is solid colors other then white. When they say no to that I have to remind them if they want natural they have to learn to live with Mother Nature. If they want perfect grains or solid colors then any factory can produce that. From there it is my job to educate the consumer on wood species, grains etc. The following clause is in my contract. I will delete the web site so that I am not advertising any product.
As a product of Mother Nature, wood is filled with a variation of details - color, grain pattern and natural deposits - that will effect its final appearance. Your new ****** kitchen has a lifetime warranty which can be found and printed on our web site. **************** This warranty does not cover these natural color occurrences in nature.
I know what you are talking about with the fridge handle too. In fact I see it on those stupid dumbing down of the consumer shows on HGTV all the time. Those shows are comedy to me. I see things that no one else sees despite them starring at it. What a bunch of hacks hawking prices and products that do not exist in real life. But like anything on TV it is entertainment.
Last edited by desertsun41; 02-19-2010 at 03:15 PM..
I love the walk through of the building-thanks. How long in real life does it take to do this?
I am very curious about the overall cost too. I honestly do like wood because of the imperfections. I am partial to birch though. We had it in our last house and I LOVED how it took stain. We had a nice medium finish, not too dark, not too light.
I would like to update our kitchen in the next few years but I have NO idea how much it would cost to even start planning on how much to save.
I love the walk through of the building-thanks. How long in real life does it take to do this?
I am very curious about the overall cost too. I honestly do like wood because of the imperfections. I am partial to birch though. We had it in our last house and I LOVED how it took stain. We had a nice medium finish, not too dark, not too light.
I would like to update our kitchen in the next few years but I have NO idea how much it would cost to even start planning on how much to save.
Thanks to you too. In real life huh? Well as I said in the first post, we had several issues that caused delays. I get cabinets in 21 days so if I or those at the manufacturing plant make any mistakes, I will have to wait 21 more days to receive the missing, broke or wrong pieces. If I holler I can and did in this case get my extra parts in 7 days.
When I placed the cabinet order, the homeowner used her own contractor to tear out the walls and was supposed to have the room ready for us in 21 days. As you saw, they did not do it. If my cabinet order was complete the first time that whole job is 3 days to install using 5 guys. Due to waiting for extra materials it took 3 weeks. As I said, the lady teaches cooking classes to other senior citizens and her new kitchen will make her first love of cooking a wonderful experience.
And shortly she will be inviting my whole crew to dinner as promised for my most favorite food in the world: Shrimp stuffed with Crabmeat.
Your choice of birch is not commonly used in cabinetry. When it is, it can be called the poor mans cherry because only the trained woodworkers eye can tell the difference between raw cherry and raw birch. Basically the same grain pattern in each. BUT....... birch is about half the price of cherry thus the term poor mans cherry. And when stained can be anything you want to achieve and look good.
I will get to and probably show all the TV center tonight. Then lastly get to the price.
TV entertainment center time. My most favorite thing to build. I have done several thousand of these over the last 3 decades and this one is rather quite simple but nice. Whatever the case, it's what the homeowner specifically wanted. Everything matches the new kitchen.
So many many times I get asked what color the TV center should be. My answer is if you can see the kitchen and the TV center from standing in the same place then they should be the same. If they are very separated then do whatever you wish. Perhaps 85% of every one I do is cherry. A pretty dominating number indeed.
Below is the beginnings which is already taking shape.
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Without the workers below you will see in the center where the flat screen TV will go, I had the crew put a solid half inch thick plywood square on the surface. This is because the studs would never line up in a million years to the TV swivel mount. With this plywood piece the TV mount can go in the precise location which is dead center where you always will have solid meat to secure the fasteners to. In other words, no finding studs, it's all solid wood. The surrounding area around that plywood we just used another layer of half inch drywall. Now the whole back area is smooth and flush. To this we will use color keyed cherry skin. By skin we mean 3 ply plywood with one side veneered and finished to whatever color the cabinets are.
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On to the final picture. That strange door to the left is short obviously because of the fireplace hearth. Behind that little door is the gas shut off valve for the fireplace. All the TV componants will go into these base cabinets. The side bookshelves are fully adjustable. The top has a 3 step crown which does not show very well. The kitchen had a simple 3" crown while this TV center has 4.5" crown which sits over 2 more decorative moldings. Building up multiple decorative moldings you can create endless looks. In this crown one can insert rope or dentil molding which she did not want.
Notice above the toe kick like any kitchen cabinet will have. Then notice below the furniture toe base which covers it. Now rather then it looking like a kitchen cabinet it now looks like a built in piece of furniture. The top is high density industrial particle board with cherry veneer and edge banded.
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You may notice the seams behind the TV. Since we have 52" wide opening and the widest you can get any sheet goods is 48" I had to seam it. And the best way is to do it equally. Over the seams we used a mullion molding.
That TV does not look centered in the opening but I assure you it is. Must be the angle the pic was taken.
Downdrafts are generaly used when the range is in an island and using an over head hood vent is not desired. Which for my taste.....is never.
The downdraft kit comes with the cooktop so I dont see why you can't use this system to vent to the outside if it's on an outside wall.
That's the problem - the wall it backs up to about as close to the center of the house as you can get. There are no exterior walls in the kitchen, although it's very bright because there are tons of windows in the family room and breakfast room that it's next to. Guess that's why they went with the downdraft vented through the foundation. Due to space considerations I would rather not downdraft, but may have to. I'll have pictures up someday. Gotta get back to the house in April and do the master bathroom first!
Finished kitchen. All that's left is for the homeowner to put away all her goodies and then plan a big dinner of Shrimp stuffed with Crabmeat for all my crew. And hopefully some of the other ladies who she teaches cooking to will buy another kitchen from me.
The total cost of the cabinets, list price, which is MSRP or manufacturers suggested retail price which is the price the big box stores sell cabinets for came to about $42,000. No wonder people's eyes have dollar signs in them when they think about cabinets or look in the big orange for cabinets. It does not have to be that way if you know where to buy. Our bill to the customer was for $28,000
$28,000 included all the cabinets (about 66 boxes and about 30 sticks of various trim), delivery to the home, installation (5 installers who took about 3 days), and the countertops. My Installer cried about the degree of difficulty should have included more money. We agreed and gave him a tip. $1400 went to the lead Installer who pays his 4 helpers some portion of that. The Silestone countertops were $3800 and was included in that price.
She hired her own Contractor to demo the load bearing wall, do the flooring, tile the backsplash, minimal plumbing and minimal electrical, hook up all the components for the new TV, make drywall repairs and paint all. She paid about $5000 for those items total. She spent an additional $4500 for new appliances separately from mine and the other contractors bill. We installed the micro, hood vent and dishwasher on our time as a courtesy. The store where she bought the fridge, cooktop and single oven from came in and installed them which was included in their sale.
Her used appliances which were all in good shape and quite young were donated to Habitat For Humanity per my encouragement.
Totals:
$28,000 to the cabinet company
$5000 to the contractor $4500 appliances
$37,500 total
She used her tax exempt number from her business so she paid no sales tax on this amount.
Her total cost was about $5000 less then the big orange and big blue would charge for just the cabinets alone which includes nothing else. Amazing huh? Shop wise everyone!!
This was a very large kitchen. I will consider doing a Kitchen Chronicles Part 2 on a small kitchen that more closely reflects the average blue collar family home.
That's some good info there! Makes me glad I'm looking at about 14 boxes + 3 in the bathroom vs. 66! $424 per box (without subtracting for countertops) is a very useful number for me to look at and use as a factor for planning purposes.
About the appliances - what were they and where did they come from? A big box? Sears? I'm guessing appliances = microwave, dishwasher, range, oven, and fridge?
I can't click "Rate this post positively" enough here! Seriously, I can't thank you enough for giving me the data I need to plan this work in my house.
Another question and I'm seriously asking this. Do cabinet companies typically offer a discount for cash (or a check from the bank)? I'm assuming that most people finance.
That's some good info there! Makes me glad I'm looking at about 14 boxes + 3 in the bathroom vs. 66! $424 per box (without subtracting for countertops) is a very useful number for me to look at and use as a factor for planning purposes.
About the appliances - what were they and where did they come from? A big box? Sears? I'm guessing appliances = microwave, dishwasher, range, oven, and fridge?
I can't click "Rate this post positively" enough here! Seriously, I can't thank you enough for giving me the data I need to plan this work in my house.
Another question and I'm seriously asking this. Do cabinet companies typically offer a discount for cash (or a check from the bank)? I'm assuming that most people finance.
Thanks for the question Steve. She bought the micro and hood vent from Lowes. The fridge, DW and oven from Conn's which you should be familiar with here in Texas.
We don't finance but some places take credit cards. Yet other places offer no interest for 12months which usually involves an outside finance source like a crooked bank. Typically most small dealers take about 65% down payment and the balance on completion of the delivery or if they are installing then the balance is upon completion. The big box stores all charge 100% up front under the guise that your order is a special order. When you order cabinets from a big box store, when something goes wrong with your order, they do not have any incentive to fix it because THEY ALREADY HAVE YOUR MONEY!!!
The other bad point of buying cabinets from the big orange is they tell their customers that cabinets take 6 to 8 weeks when in fact they know damn well it is 12 to 14 weeks. I want to know why I and every other dealer can get cabinets in 21 days or less and it takes the big box stores 3 months.
Steve most cabinet dealers/showrooms discount from list price. The "S" in MSRP is just that "suggested" by the manufacturer. The only place I know of who charges full list price is Lowes and Home Depot. Typically most small dealers/showrooms discount from list price to some degree but standard is about 50% off list. Remember the dealer near you I gave you last week? Their web site had those magic words: 45 to 60% off list price. Imagine the smile on my face when people come in with Home Depot bids. I don't even have to figure anything out. HD told you $10,000? Would you buy from me today if I gave you the same thing for $5000 and along with that you get customer service? They offer no customer service because THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL YOUR MONEY!!!
Do cabinet places usually send someone out in order to get measurements and make sure they're right? Based off what you've posted it'd be worth it for me to pay them to do the install.
Also glad to know that lead time won't be a problem. What I'm really hoping to do once I get back to TX is get somebody from a cabinet place to come over and take measurements for the bathroom cabinets + the new doors for the med. cabinet, hamper and panel between the tub and floor I'm looking at. That way we'll both know the measurements will be done right, and they'll see that I'm serious when I say that if I like them I'll be pulling out the checkbook again to cut an order for the kitchen soon. The tile guy was also going to come out with suggestions about shower tile and backsplash material (already purchased the flooring). The granite I'll need is small enough to be a remnant from someone else's slab he was able to determine based off dimensions I supplied him.
Then I can start the demo work and let the games begin!
Do cabinet places usually send someone out in order to get measurements and make sure they're right? Based off what you've posted it'd be worth it for me to pay them to do the install.
Also glad to know that lead time won't be a problem. What I'm really hoping to do once I get back to TX is get somebody from a cabinet place to come over and take measurements for the bathroom cabinets + the new doors for the med. cabinet, hamper and panel between the tub and floor I'm looking at. That way we'll both know the measurements will be done right, and they'll see that I'm serious when I say that if I like them I'll be pulling out the checkbook again to cut an order for the kitchen soon. The tile guy was also going to come out with suggestions about shower tile and backsplash material (already purchased the flooring). The granite I'll need is small enough to be a remnant from someone else's slab he was able to determine based off dimensions I supplied him.
Then I can start the demo work and let the games begin!
Steve I again must start answering your first question by saying the big box stores will not come to your home to measure. It is up to the homeowner to measure, bring in these measurements and they will draw the kitchen for you for $300. They usually refund that if you buy. If you buy they will make you sign a waiver saying if you mis-measured then it's your fault, not theirs. That to me shows no respect for their customers yet people still go there.
Most all small cabinet dealers employ certified kitchen designers CKD. This is a very difficult title to achieve. The big box stores simply take a floor clerk of their choosing and give them a 3 day training course on how to use the CAD. They are only taught to design for profit, not for customer comforts and function. You the customer will be cheated because as you see your new kitchen come to life on the PC screen you will not see any design possibilities because they don't know about them to tell you.
The small cabinet showrooms will come to your home and perform basic design service for free. That don't make the Designer a low life middle man during the entire process. The Designer earns their living by selling cabinets but are highly trained in how to make a kitchen work. The Designer does not disappear from your life once you hand them a check. The Designer keeps you informed as the cabinets are ordered, the due date, arranging for the installers to show, and any plumbers, electricians or other tradesmen that have to complete a task before the cabinets even show up. The Designer should be on the job site when the cabinets are delivered and supervise the Installers to be sure they do as the plans shows.
Most Kitchen Designers are not contractors, but their job includes guiding you through the process right to the end - and holding your hand when you need it.
Your bathroom vanities are a little challenge unless you just buy one with 2 doors. If you want drawers, there are a dozen door/drawer combinations. They can show you these combinations in the book. The most important thing to know is by code you must measure 15" from the center of your toilet to where your vanity will start.
Your granite remnant I want you to be careful. If Joe buys granite for his kitchen but only needs 1.5 slabs, Joe will still have to pay for the whole 2 slabs. The extra piece becomes a remnant for sale. The granite store is selling that remnant that some one else already paid for and they want you to pay for it again...and pay through the nose too. Just know there is lots and lots of wiggle room in that price. These granite stores are making a killing selling these remnant slabs.
Hope that covers all your questions. If not you are welcome to ask away.
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Don't people realize the handle can usually be changed? I don't see that too much anymore because a lot of people like double doors.
Seriously, I can't thank you enough for giving me the data I need to plan this work in my house.
