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Old 10-15-2013, 09:46 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078

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Hey folks, looks like it might be time for my fiancée to get a new car but I figured I'd pick your brains first. She's got a 2002 Honda Accord with the 4 cylinder engine and automatic transmission. The car has 145k miles on it and has been trouble free up to this point. This past weekend we took a trip up to the Carson, NV area from the Bay Area which involves a good bit of mountain driving and on the way up I had a strange issue with the transmission having trouble down shifting but it only happened once. The car generally drives fine, accelerates from a stop without issue and will go down one gear just fine but in this particular case I was going uphill, requested more power via the throttle and noticed that the car downshifted once and then attempted to downshift again but could not do it. The car just jerks back and forth with the RPM needle bouncing between 3k-4k as if its having trouble permanently securing a gear and this only happens at highway speeds. We drove the car around Carson/Reno on Saturday/Sunday without any issues but it was relatively flat driving. We headed back home on Monday which involved driving back into the mountains and I started noticing it again but far more common. It was relatively easy to get up to highway speeds (say 60mph), step on it 100% and watch the rpm bounce around. As soon as you lift your foot off the throttle and allow the transmission to pick a taller gear, the car behaves normally. On this return trip I noticed it happens whether we are going uphill or downhill. With myself on the throttle it was relatively simple to control because I would simply give enough throttle for a single down shift which is enough to get up to speed without giving a bit more throttle for another down shift. I had to disable cruise control though because as soon as you hit a steep enough grade, the car would down shift once, and then attempt another down shift which produces the described problem with jerking motion and bouncing RPM’s. It’s strange that aside from this issue there is nothing else wrong with the drivability of the car. It otherwise drives fine and I can likely force it to drive normally by limiting throttle input at higher speeds. A wide open throttle run at street level speeds gets the car up to speed without any shifting issues. Any ideas?

I know the Honda Accord and Acura TL of this generation had transmission issues but I believe these were with the V6 variants.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:45 AM
 
2,341 posts, read 12,037,754 times
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You can try the old "cheap tricks" such as pouring in some TransX or Seafoam, running 50 miles & then changing your fluid & filter. Or perhaps add some Lucas Stops Slip. Who knows, you might just loosen/clean a sticking valve. However, it's a long-shot.

Unfortunately, they had a lot of trouble with that F23A transmission. Moreso with the V6, yes - because the additional power tore them out sooner. But they weren't much better with the 4-cylinder.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that a lot of shops - even transmission shops - don't know enough about fixing these transmissions correctly. We'll the the install, but we never touch the guts of these ones. So be very careful about where you take the car!

Good luck!
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:08 PM
 
Location: San Diego A.K.A "D.A.Y.G.O City"
1,996 posts, read 4,767,759 times
Reputation: 2742
My mother owns a 98 Accord V6, and had to get the tranny rebuilt 2 years ago. These transmissions just suck IMO. It never shifts right and they are very touchy.

Even when accelerating from a dead stop, the engine will rev all of the way up 3,000 RPM's until it shifts to 2nd gear making the car shift harshly and slowly, it's not quick at all. I found that if you feather the throttle, the trans will shift sooner, at around 2,400-2,500 RPMs which feels much better and you get up to speed faster. But who likes touchy throttles? One shouldn't have to worry about being careful when accelerating since it becomes more of a chore than enjoyment.

It sounds like the trans is slipping, my recommendation which helped extend the life of my mothers honda before the trans finally died, is to drain the tranny fluid (3 quarts), and replace it with 2 quarts of Redline Synthetic ATF, and the new Honda Fluid. The full synthetic Redline ATF is able to withstand higher temps than the Honda ATF, and is very resilient to extreme heat and oxidation.

This will help the shift points, and stop the herky jerky shifting, including the rough downshifts that can occur from 2nd to 1st gear for awhile. The very hard (violent) downshifts is a sign that the tranny is slowly going on it's way out unfortunately.

The problem is, the fluid overheats, which wears outs it's protective properties, and breaks down on these transmissions especially when they're behind the 3.0 V6. The transmission is too weak to handle the extra torque on these cars with the V6, that were designed to originally run on a 4 cylinder engine, so they get overly stressed beyond it's original design, that is why you hear so many people having trans problems with the 98-02 Accords V6's before 100,000 miles.

tiny Metal shavings that isn't picked up by the trans pan magnet also partial clog the lines inside the valve body when the fluid hasn't been changed in years that goes to the 2nd and 3rd gear clutch packs, these were too thin and narrow from factory thus starving the clutches from receiving fluid is what I was told before the rebuild process, so the shop makes these particular lines larger by drilling them out to increase the fluid flow when the miles accumulate over time. It also doesn't help that the transmission filter isn't able to be changed unless you remove the entire tranny.

Drain and refill the trans fluid every 6 months or 4,000 miles to hopefully make it last a little longer, and perform better. I know that sounds crazy, but these transmissions were problematic from the get go, and overheated the ATF easily, so it's just a precautionary method specifically pertained to these models. Most reliable transmissions, you would never have to go this far, but on ones that are known for problems like the 98-02 Accords, it will help.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:14 PM
 
19,012 posts, read 27,562,983 times
Reputation: 20264
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageLogic View Post
You can try the old "cheap tricks" such as pouring in some TransX or Seafoam, running 50 miles & then changing your fluid & filter. Or perhaps add some Lucas Stops Slip. Who knows, you might just loosen/clean a sticking valve. However, it's a long-shot.

Unfortunately, they had a lot of trouble with that F23A transmission. Moreso with the V6, yes - because the additional power tore them out sooner. But they weren't much better with the 4-cylinder.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that a lot of shops - even transmission shops - don't know enough about fixing these transmissions correctly. We'll the the install, but we never touch the guts of these ones. So be very careful about where you take the car!

Good luck!

Wow, Wow.. It's not Seafoam. It's TransTune made by Seafoam corporation. It will only clean sludge inside. And 50 miles not going to do it. And entire ATF will need to be replaced.
1. prolly already said, but when was last time ATF was changed? You need to change ENTIRE ATF it it was not done within reasonable period of time.
2. I had very good success with slipping Honda trannie and Lucas additive. Basically, was driving on it. But, eventually, that trannie needed to have bands tightened, what was done, and she's still around. I gave her to one of my patients 3 years ago and she's still around driving him.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:18 PM
 
2,341 posts, read 12,037,754 times
Reputation: 2040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Wow, Wow.. It's not Seafoam. It's TransTune made by Seafoam corporation. It will only clean sludge inside. And 50 miles not going to do it. And entire ATF will need to be replaced.
1. prolly already said, but when was last time ATF was changed? You need to change ENTIRE ATF it it was not done within reasonable period of time.
2. I had very good success with slipping Honda trannie and Lucas additive. Basically, was driving on it. But, eventually, that trannie needed to have bands tightened, what was done, and she's still around. I gave her to one of my patients 3 years ago and she's still around driving him.
Wrong.

THINK before you respond.




Clear enough?
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,069,075 times
Reputation: 4078
Thank you for the replies. I think we'll try draining and filling new fluid to see if it helps. The car itself is in good shape otherwise so we're not excited to get rid of it but if we have to we'll get another car. Hopefully a fluid change will get a good bit more life out of it since aside from this specific issue, the transmission otherwise shifts just fine.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:51 PM
 
3,759 posts, read 5,853,701 times
Reputation: 5532
Wife has a '03 Accord V6 but only 85K. I have been watching it as far a slipping and so far, no troubles. So many other things on this car have not lasted like other Accords. Really questioning whether to buy another one.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:18 PM
 
2,341 posts, read 12,037,754 times
Reputation: 2040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogarven View Post
Wife has a '03 Accord V6 but only 85K. I have been watching it as far a slipping and so far, no troubles. So many other things on this car have not lasted like other Accords. Really questioning whether to buy another one.
The '03 had a better transmission in it. I hope yours does you right!
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: H-town, TX.
3,503 posts, read 7,494,923 times
Reputation: 2232
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageLogic View Post
The '03 had a better transmission in it. I hope yours does you right!
No, it wasn't until 05 when the Ridgeline came around that Honda made a heavier duty trans. 03 was definitely still a trouble year.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:39 PM
 
19,012 posts, read 27,562,983 times
Reputation: 20264
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageLogic View Post
Wrong.

THINK before you respond.




Clear enough?

Actually, RIGHT. Seafoam is not used for transmissions, as you said in your post. TransTune is MADE BY Seafoam and is used IN transmissions. Slow down and try to understand what people say. Seafoam is used for engines and fuel systems. No one was questioning TransX or whatever.
Your post clearly says right there: add TransX OR Seafoam to transmission.
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