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1. I know this depends on the area, but in our territory, metal is cheaper than even the best shingles, and has been for a few years. Plus, even in areas where metal might be more expensive, it's still far cheaper in the long run. Considering the installer uses a quality metal roofing panel with a high quality paint system, it's gonna last FAR longer than shingles. matter of fact, for most people, putting on a metal roof means that the roof will never have to be touched again(aside from cleaning). Shingles WILL have to be done again, no matter what the quality of the shingle is.
2. I said it in my last post, but an exposed fastener roof done correctly(key word) is perfectly fine and is perfectly safe.
3. Saying that 29gauge is very very thin shows me you use a lower quality panel. In every gauge, there are tolerance ranges. some make them on the low end of that range(thin metal or "junk" metal as we refer to it) and some make them on the high end(which is a very thick 29 gauge). We sell one of the thickest 29 gauge panels you can buy, and it's actually thicker than some companies' 26gauge panels, again because of that tolerance range.
4. The idea of flashing looking good or bad on an exposed fastener panel is completely dependent on the installer.
1. Metal being cheaper than the best(highest priced shingles) is not a good sales pitch. Having a metal roof installed for most people results in a nightmare roof because it was installed cheaply and incorrectly. I am in no way a fan of shingles, but if a building owner wants a cheap roof quickly that is his/her best option. I am a metal guy so I think metal is way better.
2. Most exposed fastener metal roofs are installed onto plywood or OSB substrates which are both not homogenous materials making it very likely that a few of the thousands of screws going into it will hit a weak place leaving a hole in the roof. This can be corrected with a replacement screw with a larger minor and major diameter. Exposed fastener roofs do not account for expansion and contraction of the panels which can lead to more fasteners working themselves loose over time.
3. A very thick 29 gauge is an idiom if I've ever heard one. If your 29 gauge was as thick as 26 gauge you would sell it as 26 gauge. I generally work with 24 gauge steel; it is the industry standard for metal roofs and that is why I feel that 29 gauge is very very thin. I have only installed 29 gauge roofs if a customer insisted on it.
4. I agree with you that looks are dependent upon the installers. However, some of the exposed fastener flashings do look rather cheap they way they're fabricated/installed(foam closures, no hems, etc.).
Still their is a reason that most metal roofing only has a 25 year gauarantee. In my area quailty metal is much more expensive because of the labor cost. Just look at the makers fastener requirements in numbers to see why if it properly done.
A quality metal roof will last much longer than 25 years but not without maintenance. You should have the caulk on any counterflashings checked about every 5-10 years or if you notice a leak; that is pretty much the only thing that goes bad on quality metal roofs until they rust out.
3. Saying that 29gauge is very very thin shows me you use a lower quality panel. In every gauge, there are tolerance ranges. some make them on the low end of that range(thin metal or "junk" metal as we refer to it) and some make them on the high end(which is a very thick 29 gauge). We sell one of the thickest 29 gauge panels you can buy, and it's actually thicker than some companies' 26gauge panels, again because of that tolerance range..
You do realize that 29 gauge is exactly 29 gauge, there is no thin 29 gauges or thick 29 gauges. 29 gauge is less than 1/64 of a inch! The thickness of a hair.
1. Metal being cheaper than the best(highest priced shingles) is not a good sales pitch. Having a metal roof installed for most people results in a nightmare roof because it was installed cheaply and incorrectly. I am in no way a fan of shingles, but if a building owner wants a cheap roof quickly that is his/her best option. I am a metal guy so I think metal is way better.
again, it depends on the area. Metal roofing is cheaper than the best shingles here. A metal roofing can be a nightmare if you dont research out the best installer, but only an idiot wouldnt research.
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2. Most exposed fastener metal roofs are installed onto plywood or OSB substrates which are both not homogenous materials making it very likely that a few of the thousands of screws going into it will hit a weak place leaving a hole in the roof. This can be corrected with a replacement screw with a larger minor and major diameter. Exposed fastener roofs do not account for expansion and contraction of the panels which can lead to more fasteners working themselves loose over time.
that's why slatting is the best option which is what we always did if the homeowner chose it. Also, you can account for expansion and contraction by choosing a good wood that grips well such as yellow pine.
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3. A very thick 29 gauge is an idiom if I've ever heard one. If your 29 gauge was as thick as 26 gauge you would sell it as 26 gauge. I generally work with 24 gauge steel; it is the industry standard for metal roofs and that is why I feel that 29 gauge is very very thin. I have only installed 29 gauge roofs if a customer insisted on it.
it's only an idiom to you, because you're obviously not that experienced. I said our 29 gauge was as thick as some companies 26 simply because our 29 is made as thick as you can make 29 and some companies 26 is made as thin as you can make 26. 24 gauge on a residential is overkill and a vast waste of money. Now for commercial, I agree with you. however, we've seen our 29 gauge panels hold up through some pretty intense hailstorms. If you are selling 24 gauge to residential customers, I just feel sorry for them for the money they are throwing down the drain for an unnecessary product.
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4. I agree with you that looks are dependent upon the installers. However, some of the exposed fastener flashings do look rather cheap they way they're fabricated/installed(foam closures, no hems, etc.).
yeah some do, but if they look cheap, it's because it's a poorly manufactured panel.
I dont mean to come off as a know it all, but we've been at this for a LONG time and have had experience with many different companies.
You do realize that 29 gauge is exactly 29 gauge, there is no thin 29 gauges or thick 29 gauges. 29 gauge is less than 1/64 of a inch! The thickness of a hair.
you are absolutely wrong. There are tolerance ranges for every gauge. Ever heard of a micrometer? That's one thing it is used for....to check tolerance ranges of metal. I tell you what....if you dont believe me, call a metal roofing manufacturer(Fabral is generally regarded as an industry standard....their quality is tops), and talk to their R&D department. Obviously, you wont do that, but I'm trying prove to you that there are tolerance ranges(thinner and thicker panels, but the same gauge).
The tolerance is the same no matter the guage and they are very tight with any I have seen now days.A micrometer would do you much good since it the metal not the coated metal in guage. The variance from than can vary greatly between brands and coatings.
So let me get this straight, the cheapest metal roof available (an exposed fastener 26-29 gauge steel roof) is less expensive than the most expensive shingles(Grand Manors or similar) which can cost around $250/square. Like I said once before thanks for the info Captain Obvious but this is a terrible sales pitch.
A homeowner can even get a quality hidden fastener metal roof made of 24 gauge steel for less than the most expensive shingles. However the majority of the cost of a metal roof is caused by labor costs. Metal roofs take longer to install than shingle roofs and it takes more skill to install them. This is the reason that large crews generally are not seen installing metal roofs. It is much easier to find an army of workers who can bang on some shingles for a low price than it is to find someone who can neatly and properly install metal roofing for a fair price. There just simply are not that many people out there who are able to work with all the complex geometries associated with metal roofing.
So let me get this straight, the cheapest metal roof available (an exposed fastener 26-29 gauge steel roof) is less expensive than the most expensive shingles(Grand Manors or similar) which can cost around $250/square. Like I said once before thanks for the info Captain Obvious but this is a terrible sales pitch.
A homeowner can even get a quality hidden fastener metal roof made of 24 gauge steel for less than the most expensive shingles. However the majority of the cost of a metal roof is caused by labor costs. Metal roofs take longer to install than shingle roofs and it takes more skill to install them. This is the reason that large crews generally are not seen installing metal roofs. It is much easier to find an army of workers who can bang on some shingles for a low price than it is to find someone who can neatly and properly install metal roofing for a fair price. There just simply are not that many people out there who are able to work with all the complex geometries associated with metal roofing.
No I'm comparing the cheaper metal(exposed fastener) with a "good" shingle. Basically I'm comparing a shingle which is used 90% of the time on shingle roofs(20-30yr) to the equivalent in metal (40yr). And the whole idea on installation is completely dependent on the layout of the roof.
I have a lanai with 5 ---12 foot by 3foot --panels. I have placed membranes on the top of the roof that cured the main leaks. My problem now is where the roof meets the screened metal structure. This is attached with 42--- inch and a half galvanized screws on the underside of the roof. Some of these screws approximately 5 or 7 leak when it rains or from the overnight dew or humidity (I live in Florida). My question --should I replace all 42 screws with a larger size and secure them with teflon or plumbers paste?
Location: Central Atlantic Region, though consults worldwide
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Originally Posted by verybadgnome
I got a bid that was 30% higher than another but included: "replacing the damaged roofing panel, pressure washing your entire roof then resealing every screw with a silicon sealant and extending you a 1 year watertight warranty for....."
Is sealing the screws necessary? His reply was:
"keep in mind if you don't seal your existing panel screws you will be vulnerable to leaks which lead to costly drywall and paint repairs. Any quality roofer would know this and bring it to your attention."
Won't the silicone sealant bake in the Texas sun and be rendered useless in a few years?
Not to put too fine a point on matters; if the screws are set into the top of each rib then waterproofing them may be baseless. If the screws are set into the pan where water runs, then that's different. The screws need be snug-tight (not torqued) and if there are any fractured rubber grommets those sealing screw should be replaced.
This is simple work and requires not special expertise. Dobbing silicone atop a screw head versus backing the screw out minimally to place a dab at the screw base (then re-tighten) would prove vastly more durable and not prone to the Texas sun. Longevity to solar exposure silicone is the problem, not the heat. Silicone is often service rated up to 400 deg F. (that does not mean you can use ordinary silicone on flue pipes).
Pressure washing for the sake of washing does nothing for water-tightness of the roof. If concerned about the new panel looking different - don't worry it won't take long to match the others. Now if you wish to place a heat rejecting water proof roof coating on, then definitely pressure wash the roof. Spraying the coating will also seal atop all screws.
Screws must be snug for a variety of reasons, the more important reason why is to control vibration-loosening screws caused by wind. Other than sun wind is a metal roof's real enemy. Roofs can blow off if screws are not secure. Heck, some screws may not have been snug fit when the roof was installed. Some screws may also be stripped of any hold down force and those locations require a larger appropriate screw.
Hope this helps.
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