Refinishing 100 yr old white pine floor (subfloor, paint, living room, kitchen)
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Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
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Originally Posted by Yarldey
Hello! We recently purchased our first home, a 100+ year old cozy little town house with great wide plank pine floors. A local restored wood place from which we ordered a few replacement planks told us it is white pine. The living room floor is in pretty rough shape compared to the rest of the house and we want to have it refinished. I've had two floor guys come take a look and they've both suggested polyurethane, seems like that's the standard. I'd love to hear suggestions as to how to go about refinishing the floor and what products to use. I don't want anyone to damage these beautiful old floors! We also want them to look as close to the rest of the house as possible after they're refinished. Here is a picture of the living room floor now, this is the section we're going to repair with the restored wood planks.
What part of the country are you in? Just bear in mind that polyurethane may cup really old floors that are accustomed to "breathing" in some climates.
A friend of mine remodeled a house built in 1918 in the Houston Heights that had southern yellow pine (possibly from site sawn lumber) floors. He said that pine floors are very easy to gouge with a drum or belt sander and said that he should have used a random orbital sander. He also said that the floors soaked up about double the stain he expected them to and he finished with regular S.C. Johnson paste wax. Great result but there are some gouges visible where the boards intersect the walls.
What part of the country are you in? Just bear in mind that polyurethane may cup really old floors that are accustomed to "breathing" in some climates.
A friend of mine remodeled a house built in 1918 in the Houston Heights that had southern yellow pine (possibly from site sawn lumber) floors. He said that pine floors are very easy to gouge with a drum or belt sander and said that he should have used a random orbital sander. He also said that the floors soaked up about double the stain he expected them to and he finished with regular S.C. Johnson paste wax. Great result but there are some gouges visible where the boards intersect the walls.
I'm in North NJ, Jersey City to be exact. Yeah, I would usually undertake a task like this myself but I'm afraid to because of the age of the floors.
Just to be on the safe side- I'd get an ITEL report. It will cost about $60.00 and you'll know exactly what you have and they can tell you what kind of finish is on it if you request.
White pine floors as compared to heart pine- well, there's no comparison. If those are truly white pine and don't have any poly on them now, keep it that way. Tung oil is really the best for that type of flooring. And using a drum sander would be a big no-no! Definitely go with an orbital sander.
However, if the floor has multiple coats of no-telling what- you could possibly sand it to nothing to get a clean surface. If that's the case- concede to a new floor.
Just to be on the safe side- I'd get an ITEL report. It will cost about $60.00 and you'll know exactly what you have and they can tell you what kind of finish is on it if you request.
White pine floors as compared to heart pine- well, there's no comparison. If those are truly white pine and don't have any poly on them now, keep it that way. Tung oil is really the best for that type of flooring. And using a drum sander would be a big no-no! Definitely go with an orbital sander.
However, if the floor has multiple coats of no-telling what- you could possibly sand it to nothing to get a clean surface. If that's the case- concede to a new floor.
What is an ITEL report? I'm not sure if I stated this earlier but the floors are 1" thick, isn't that plenty of wood for sanding even with a drum sander? I don't think there are multiple finishes on there, it looks minimal but I'm no expert.
Hi all, so I had the floors repaired with reclaimed white pine which is what I was told my original floors are. However, after sanding everything down, the reclaimed wood looks very different than the original. The picture below is test patch with sealer applied. The lighter wood is my original floor and the darker is the "reclaimed" wood, again this is with sealer applied. I really need some help/suggestions on getting the two to match. I wanted to go with a clear coat but I think the difference is too noticeable between the two and it would look like a big patch.
In this picture you can see the patch/repair against the rest of the floor. I have a repair like this in every room in the house.
1. That is probably yellow pine, not white. White is too soft for floors. Yellow pine is a hardwood. It is harder than many of todays "hardwoods" Since true Yellow pine has not been generally available for at least 40 -50 years, the people at the store you went to may have no idea what it is. We were told by a specialty lumber yard that our yellow pine floors were white pine, then we learned that that is almost impossible (white pine would never have held up for 172 years). I have heard that there are a very few places where they used old growth heartwood white pine for flooring, but even that would wear pretty quickly.
2. If you sand the floors, you will destroy the patina. Then you will have a new looking floor. Most people do not want new looking floors in a 110 year old house, but that is up to you.
3. IF you sand too much, you will sand away the upper edge of the groove and then the tongue will pope free. That means that there will be nothing holding the next floor boars in place. Sanding is not your friend. Your floors have probably been sanded 4-5 times already. They only last so many times.
4. In the picture it looks like you have some unevenness from differential settlement. You cannot sand this away. You also have some patching or an addition. This also will not sand away.
5. IF you want to make the floors look "right" meaning new. you should probably just reaplce them or cover them over. Covering them is preferable, because then if someone wants restore them, they will still be there. To me, the floors look about "right" for 110 year old house already. They have a nice patina, but look like they may have been refinished not too long ago. Maybe within the last 20-40 years. Maybe even within 5-10 years. Hard to tell from a picture.
6. If you want to preserve the patina and expect that 110 year old house will have floors with 110 years of dings and dents, then just screen them, do not sand them. You can go with oil and wax if you want, but that is a ton of work and if you forget and water gets into the grain, you can ruin your floors (they will get black spots that you cannot sand out). If you cot them with a satin (not glossy) polyurethane, they will look the same and be really easy to care for. It will also help to preserve the wood.
# if you decide to use poly keep in mind that oil based turns yellow in sunlight. Some people like that look. Waterbase stays clear. Waterbase is easy to put on because it dries really fast and does not smell. However you need a LOT of coats. I used 7 coats plus an extra 5 or more in traffic areas. Professionals cannot use waterbase, because they cannot put on seven coats and keep their price within reason. Waterbase is only practical DIY.
# If you want to screen not sand, you will have to shop around. There are flooring guys who can and will do this. Others will tell you that you cannot. They will say you have to sand, becasue that is all they know.
# If you have wood in the kitchen or bathroom, I suggest that you either paint it (common 110 years ago) or use a heavy duty gloss coating. Otherwise it will not hold up. Do not even try to oil and wax in a bathroom or kitchen.
Screening is lots cheaper than sanding. Less messy too.
Sanding usually makes the floors look worse unless you are going to sand deep enough to get through every spot, ding and dent.
It appears that your floors already have poly coating on them. This is extremely common. Unless your house has been sealed up for the past 60 years, someone probably got sick of oil and wax and put poly over them.
Some oils will make some polys blister. If this happens, let it fully cure, screen again and try a different product.
If you have horrible water spots that you just cannot live with, you can try sanding a little, bleaching them and then experiment with stain until you match the existing patina. That is really really hard. I am lucky to have a friend who is an artist with matching stain and paint (professional historic home painter). I would not try that on my own.
If you have to patch, the best way to get a match is to go to a salvage place and get wood from a similar house in your area of similar age. Modern wood will never match the grain. It is also milled more and not as thick as your old flooring. There are some examples of that type of patching shown in your pictures. I would remove those new boards and replace them with suitably matching wood from a salvaged house.
If you decide to use new wood, you really need to get the boards custom milled. They do nto make wood in the thickness of your floors anymore. You cannot match the grain (because they can no longer cut old growth) but you can match the thickness. It is expensive though.
Putty usually looks awful. What actually does not look too bad is to let the cracks fill with dist and dirt and poly over it. It seems like a terrible idea, but we did it by mistake once and it looked better than any other solution that we could find.
You cald also have the flooring carefully taken up and relaid to get rid of the gaps. That would be massively expensive though and you would need some salvaged flooring available to match because you will loose some boards.
When you patch, use boards of different lengths. A straight line match looks terrible. stagger the length of the boards, use matching grain and thickness and your patch can be completely unnoticeable.
If you get desperate and sand, darker stain generally gives you a better more even result. However then you have dark floors which some people hate.
Remember, you can experiment and if you do not like the result, do it over. However if you stain dark, it will be very very hard to ever lighten it.
We all have our opinions, especially preservationists like me. There is not right way, thee is only what you are happy with. You should love your house and become part of its history. Do not try to restore it to please somone else. We spent a decade on one house lovingly restoring everything with appropriate products and salvage materials, reproduction wallpaper, etc. The guy who bought it when we moved basically tore everything out and home depoted it. I wanted to throw up when I saw it. Unfortunately for him everyone seemed to agree that home depot products and Ikea does nto belong in a 130 year old house. No one wanted the butchered mess he created and he lose a half million$ between bad choi8ces and a bad market. I have a hard time feeling sorry for him.
Looked again. You definitely have varnish or poly on those floors. Oil will only make them slippery and dirty. If you want to oil and wax, you need to remove the varnish or poly. (you do that by screening)
Hi all, so I had the floors repaired with reclaimed white pine which is what I was told my original floors are. However, after sanding everything down, the reclaimed wood looks very different than the original. The picture below is test patch with sealer applied. The lighter wood is my original floor and the darker is the "reclaimed" wood, again this is with sealer applied. I really need some help/suggestions on getting the two to match. I wanted to go with a clear coat but I think the difference is too noticeable between the two and it would look like a big patch.
In this picture you can see the patch/repair against the rest of the floor. I have a repair like this in every room in the house.
Whatever that is is not the same species as your floor. Keep trying. Buy some wood and and it coat it and compare and see what it looks like before you lay it. Try yellow pine, different heartwoods, fir. Do some resarch and find out what kind of trees in your area were used for flooring. You have to match the same type of pine, not just pine. If you do nto match the grain, it will look bad and bug you forever. Matching grain is more important than color. Color can be adjusted, grain cannot. Your floors look a lot like birch, but I do not think that they are. However you might experiment with birch for a better match.
Looking again, maybe that really is white pine. It is odd if it is. You have very tight grain. It loos a lot like maple only with knots. Kinda like birds eye maple, only the grain is different. Try getting more people to look at it. Find someone who makes lumber. If you do not have Amish in your area, you may have a guy with a portable sawmill who is into wood and species. It will be hard, but you will find a match eventually. I would not leave tat coarse grain stuff in here. It really looks awful - sorry.
Whatever that is is not the same species as your floor. Keep trying. Buy some wood and and it coat it and compare and see what it looks like before you lay it. Try yellow pine, different heartwoods, fir. Do some resarch and find out what kind of trees in your area were used for flooring. You have to match the same type of pine, not just pine. If you do nto match the grain, it will look bad and bug you forever. Matching grain is more important than color. Color can be adjusted, grain cannot. Your floors look a lot like birch, but I do not think that they are. However you might experiment with birch for a better match.
Looking again, maybe that really is white pine. It is odd if it is. You have very tight grain. It loos a lot like maple only with knots. Kinda like birds eye maple, only the grain is different. Try getting more people to look at it. Find someone who makes lumber. If you do not have Amish in your area, you may have a guy with a portable sawmill who is into wood and species. It will be hard, but you will find a match eventually. I would not leave tat coarse grain stuff in here. It really looks awful - sorry.
Hi, thanks for your response. The wood I bought definitely looks different both in the grain and in color. Unfortunately I cannot afford to get rid of it. It was pretty expensive and its also installed in every room throughout the house. As you can see in the initial pictures before sanding, there were really ugly patches where vents used to be, made with completely different size, color, and grain wood. At least now the patches are pine and the width/thickness is the same as the original wood. The place I purchased the wood from is woodboardsandbeams.com. They specialize in reclaimed wood, so I took their word for it when I brought them a sample of my original wood and was told it was white pine. I should have taken action when I noticed the different grain on the wood I received, however this didn't really hit me until it was installed and the floor had been sanded.
I wanted to go with a clear oil based poly, but with my new dilemma, I think that trying to darken and color match my original floor to the new darker wood might be the best solution. Otherwise although a better patch, the new wood is still going to look like a patch. Really torn about this though as I did not want to stain the natural pine.
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