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Ok..we have been house hunting for the past much. As our luck would have it..we seem to have moved to the one area in the country where it's a sellers market. Not to mention pickins are slim. So we have had to broaden our horizons on what we were looking for if we want to get out of our teeny tiny rental with 3 boys. We are looking at a house that is 5000 sq foot built in 1860. The previous owners started updating it and it seems solid. It is an awesome price in a good location on a decent lot. We have never owned a home over 30 yrs old. What are the cons? I see the obvious of maybe it being drafty and utilities being high because of size. So am I crazy for considering it? Any advice would be great!
You name it, an old house has it to offer. I would look at structure from the foundation up to the roof. Is it bascially sound? Then go through each of the systems, and then look at the (broadly speaking) cosmetics. Do it with a good rennovation builder, or an inspector if you are unsure.
I grew up in an old house (circo 1790). I hated it! One outlet per room. Maybe. Central heating system--one main furnace; no ducts. Firepleaces everywhere...dirty and chilly when not in use. Windows that didn't open; doors that didn't close. Floors that sloped like the soapbox derby. Forget about something like a dish washer or a garbage disposal.
But other people find all of these things as 'character'. If the place has stood this long, it probably isn't going to fall down, and might just be a keeper. It all depends on what you are looking for, and willing to adapt to.
Good luck. You'll have plenty of stories to discuss with family at the holiday dinner table.
If you are prepared to pay for higher utilities (if it has new roof, properly insulated attic, new windows... etc.), higher sq ft taxes (less of course compared to a new house) and also higher labor (some needs specific craftsman) to fix that old house and all that historical preservation required? from the historical district... if it is "move in" then go for it!
If it is "worth" your purchase (say location is a gold mine and that house will make you money before too long)... definite go for it.
It dpends on condition and configuration. We have a big old house built in 1836, 1850, 1868, 1946 and 2006.
Your biggest cost is likely to be heat and AC (we do not use AC). If the house has been re-insulated and the windows are well maintained and you have storm windows, then it will nto be much different from any other house. If not, it could get really expensive (i.e. $800 per month or more in the winter). However a lot of big old houses are configured such that your can just shut some rooms down in the winter and not heat them. Some can be heated with the existing fireplaces if you have a supply of wood.
Electricity and plumbing are not less efficient if they are old. In fact, older houses used lots less electricity. You typically had one or two light bulbs in a room compared to modern homes which often have six or eight. In an older house, most of you appliances are usually gas rather than electric. That is cheaper.
as far as what you will need, it will depend. If the wiring is unsafe (rare) or unacceptable for the loads that you will use, you need rewiring. That cna cost $20k or more. Insulation will run $10K - $25K. If you get taken by the "you must buy new plastic windows" people, you cna easily spend $30k to $50k or more. Our house has about 50 windows. Replacing them all would be almost $100,000. Keep in mnd that any work oyu do may require daming walls floors cielings etc which then must be re-done.
If your house has been "modernized" it can be very expensive to take it back to historic charm. 18" antique yellow pine baseboard molding costs around $16 per foot. That is around $2000 per room just for baseboard moldings. IF your charming kitchen cabinets were torn out and replaced with Kitchenmaid junk; or if the light fixtures were removed and repalce with cieling boobs from Home Depot ot lowes, it can take a long time to find appropriate replacements from salvage places, or a truly good reproduction. A good reproduction stove costs $3000 - $6000. Restored antique stoves cna cost $1000 - $20,000. Sometimes you cna find an antique stove for a few hundred in usable condition. We booght an old monitor top fridge for $100 out of someone garage (beer fridge) and it has been working fine for four years so far. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes yo search for years to find something that you need. You can always go the rip it out and replace it with junky modern things from Home Depot or Lowes route, but then you will ahve spent more than a new house woudl cost and destroyed all of your old house charm and history and just created a bastardized mess that no one will want.
Not many things are big expenses other than wiring and plumbing. Plumbing itself is pretty inexpensive, but repairing the damage can be huge. Wiring is expensive and can do a huge amount of damage if it is not done by a thinking person. Finshing floors, nto expensive, but it adds up. Plastering - expensive. Paint and wallpaper cost more than you woudl ever think. Custom or salvaged hardware can be very costly.
A lot depends on you. If you are patient and you have a lot of time to spend finding things and fixing things, you can keep the cost down a lot. If you pay to have it done, it will cost you a fortune.
Foundations can be costly if they are really bad. We had one house with a foundation problem. it woudl have been $30K to replace the entire foundation, we had it repaired for $4500, but then we had to fix some walls that cracked.
A new roof is going to cost you around $10k to $12k if you use a decent product. It can be more.
Paint for our house (exterior) is $50K and that is discounted by a friend. The other bids were $65k to $70K.
If your 1930 toilet breaks, you are not going to be able to got to Home Depot for parts. You need ot either replace the toilet or order parts. Either one costs a lot more thna a fluidmaster valve. if a door gets broke, you may have to have one custom made to match. Doors and moldings were often custom built on site. You get great quality and a unique home, but if you need to replace something, you cannot get it elsewhere.
It all depends on what your particular house needs and what you can do yourself.
Generally an historic home is a work of love. It is not a good investment. You do it for the same reason that people restore an antique car. You spend more than you will get back if you sell it, but you spend it and put the time in becuase you love it, not because it is financially practical.
On the other hand, you rarely "need" many of the upgrades that get recommended. Remember people lived in this house for hundreds of years just as it is. You can too.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 10-13-2011 at 12:29 PM..
5000 sq foot built in 1860.
We have never owned a home over 30 yrs old.
Yeah; crazy about sums it up.
If you (believe that you) can actually afford this mess...
then you can afford to BUILD the NEW 1800sf house you really need.
And be done a LOT sooner and for a LOT less cost.
hth
Last edited by MrRational; 10-13-2011 at 01:33 PM..
I have owned houses from pre-1900 two times. They have been great, but you need to start with a basic knowledge to understand what is updated and what is still 120+ years old. But, I live in areas where the houses are ALL that old, and they are all updated, etc...
Wow..I consider myself a smart girl but I honestly hadn't thought about alot of these issues. We are handy but hubby is not a jack of all trades and works full time so most would be hired out. SOME..but most of the house has not been updated. The first 2 floors are ok..but the third has been neglected. Some water damage. I will say most of the original woodwork is there..omg..beautiful. Carpet that can easily be torn up has hardwoods under it. It has so much potential. The wiring I think would pretty much break us at $20k. I can't live with one plug in each room as one poster said..and I noticed that is the case. I would really love to restore it..but after reading these post I realize it's not realistic. We don't have the time or money with 3 kids at home. I do hope to have one one day..maybe when the kids are out of the house. Thanks guys..you have been incredibly helpful.
Wow..I consider myself a smart girl but I honestly hadn't thought about alot of these issues. We are handy but hubby is not a jack of all trades and works full time so most would be hired out. SOME..but most of the house has not been updated. The first 2 floors are ok..but the third has been neglected. Some water damage. I will say most of the original woodwork is there..omg..beautiful. Carpet that can easily be torn up has hardwoods under it. It has so much potential. The wiring I think would pretty much break us at $20k. I can't live with one plug in each room as one poster said..and I noticed that is the case. I would really love to restore it..but after reading these post I realize it's not realistic. We don't have the time or money with 3 kids at home. I do hope to have one one day..maybe when the kids are out of the house. Thanks guys..you have been incredibly helpful.
Everyone else covered all the important things well. May I just add I don't know where you saw a sellers market in Pa. because there are none there. You should be very careful buying anything right now since 99% of the homes in America are depreciating by the day and will continue to do so for a very long time. That is not my opinion or anyone else's. That is a fact.
For what you have to pay for all the hidden defects is not worth it. And lastly I have to add without passing judgment on you personally because I don't know you. With 5 people in your household, what in hell do you need 5000 SF for? That's the old fashioned way. If the bigger the better then too big is just right. Does that make sense? Why work for the house which is no longer a nest egg but a just a depreciating asset that keeps you dry and warm.
Buy something affordable with plenty of room. What do you need 5000 SF for?
You probably have asbestos in that house, aluminum wiring, termites or at least termite damage and who knows what else.
I only speak facts here. My opinion is we fat cat gloating Americans always want big, best, great and greater. Well why not? If we don't have enough cash we all have a credit card. We all bought more then we can afford, me included. I honestly feel this is a major contributing factor to the deep deep economic depression we are in now. A depression that I seriously doubt I will ever see us get out of and I'm over 50.
Be careful and think this out. We all love the charm of an old house. Why not? They are beautiful. But know what you are in for first.
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