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At the end of the day it all depends on what your house insurance policy accepts as "good" wiring.
That is if you expect them to pay your claim if you have a wiring fire.............
I'm not aware of any utility in the country that uses copper wiring for underground laterals or overhead drops to the house.
I'm willing to bet your house also has aluminum wiring coming from the transformer to the meter.
Aluminum is allowed by the NEC. Here are some direct lines from the 2011, the most current version:
Quote:
310.106 Conductors. (A) Minimum Size of Conductors. The minimum size of
conductors shall be as shown in Table 310.106(A), except
as permitted elsewhere in this Code. (B) Conductor Material. Conductors in this article shall
be of aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or copper unless
otherwise specified.
Solid aluminum conductors 8, 10, and 12 AWG shall be
made of an AA-8000 series electrical grade aluminum alloy
conductor material. Stranded aluminum conductors 8 AWG
through 1000 kcmil marked as Type RHH, RHW, XHHW,
THW, THHW, THWN, THHN, service-entrance Type SE
Style U and SE Style R shall be made of an AA-8000 series
"This article" refers to article 300, which is Wiring Methods and Materials.
Quote:
406.2(C) Receptacles for Aluminum Conductors. Receptacles
rated 20 amperes or less and designed for the direct connection
of aluminum conductors shall be marked CO/ALR.
Quote:
404.14(C) CO/ALR Snap Switches. Snap switches rated 20 amperes or less directly connected to aluminum conductors
shall be listed and marked CO/ALR.
I would have serious issues with an insurance company that doesn't accept NEC standards as "good wiring".
At the end of the day it all depends on what your house insurance policy accepts as "good" wiring.
That is if you expect them to pay your claim if you have a wiring fire.............
LOL! In the last 30 years of being an Electrician I have not seen 1 inch of copper used as a service drop anywhere in the Country on a residential service. If you have an insurance that has that written in as part of their policy... time to get a new insurance company.
LOL! In the last 30 years of being an Electrician I have not seen 1 inch of copper used as a service drop anywhere in the Country on a residential service. If you have an insurance that has that written in as part of their policy... time to get a new insurance company.
Sometimes that happens. I have seen insurance policies that do not cover anything at all. (For eample a Liability policy issued specifically for a residential construcitn project where the policy excludes residential construciton. A car insurance ploicy issued on a classic car that excludes coverage for classic cars. It woudl nto surprise me if some insurance company is excluding coverage for any house with any aluminum wiring and thereby excluding all coverage whatsoever. If that is the case, it is definitely time to get a new insurance company.
"I'm willing to bet your house also has aluminum wiring coming from the transformer to the meter. "
Sorry, but in my case your bet is lost. When I had my old house rewired 30 yrs ago I insisted on 100% copper for all wire with a gage larger for all runs.
My father in law (bless him) provided enough copper cable to run from transformer to circuit breaker box (Over 100 ft !) to ensure that a wiring fire would have a tough time starting. This all took place when the dangers of aluminum wiring were being discovered.
"I'm willing to bet your house also has aluminum wiring coming from the transformer to the meter. "
Sorry, but in my case your bet is lost. When I had my old house rewired 30 yrs ago I insisted on 100% copper for all wire with a gage larger for all runs.
My father in law (bless him) provided enough copper cable to run from transformer to circuit breaker box (Over 100 ft !) to ensure that a wiring fire would have a tough time starting. This all took place when the dangers of aluminum wiring were being discovered.
Got any pics of the service and interior wiring connections? Im just curious.
Got any pics of the service and interior wiring connections? Im just curious.
No, sorry. However, since all my electrical work was done by a union electrician to code (except all wire is one gage larger than required by code) it would be the same ( I suppose) as any other union wired to code box & system.
I live in a 100+ year old house and fire safety is "Job 1" in my home.
No, sorry. However, since all my electrical work was done by a union electrician to code (except all wire is one gage larger than required by code) it would be the same ( I suppose) as any other union wired to code box & system.
I live in a 100+ year old house and fire safety is "Job 1" in my home.
You make a good point... code generally sets the minimum.
Friends bought a condo built in the mid 70's and did have trouble when it came time to sell because the builder used aluminum for 15 and 20 amp circuits...
They were able to have an electrician verify each switch and receptacle was marked for Aluminum service... they found two that were not.
No, sorry. However, since all my electrical work was done by a union electrician to code
Psst... Union Electrician/Non-union Electrician doesn't mean jack-squat.
I've been an Electrician for 30 years, both on Union jobs and on Non-union jobs. There are superb Electricians on both sides of the Union fence, as well as Electricians I wouldn't trust with wiring a doorbell on an outhouse on both sides. When the rubber hits the road though I have seen a higher percentage of the later type on Union jobs than on Non-union jobs.
That is neither here-or-there though for this question. The question that is being knocked around now is whether Aluminum is a "safe" wiring method in a home. The answer is YES it is a very safe wire to use, in certain areas, but not good in other areas. Services and larger circuits it is very,very safe; 15, 20, & 30 amp circuits it is not. Ask yourself what sets the larger circuits apart from the smaller ones... type of usage. The smaller circuits are used all the time in a different manner than the larger ones are. Larger circuits are almost 100% plug in the load and leave it for years. Almost no wiggle or vibration from things being plugged in and out all the time. I can truthfully say that in 30 years of being an Electrician I have NEVER pulled out a burned outlet or switch and found Aluminum wire, but I have seen dozens and dozens of outlets that were not installed correctly using copper conductors that were burnt and melted right out of the box.
No, sorry. However, since all my electrical work was done by a union electrician to code (except all wire is one gage larger than required by code) it would be the same ( I suppose) as any other union wired to code box & system.
I live in a 100+ year old house and fire safety is "Job 1" in my home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
You make a good point... code generally sets the minimum.
Well, code does set the minumum, but since #12 wiring is rated for 30A, and only fused @ 20A in residential, there is plenty of room for overhead; its a very safe minimum. i'm an electrician, and i used #14 on my general lighting and recep circuits in my house. its rated for 25A and fused at 15A.
I was most curious to see how they squeezed #10 wire into 15a-20a devices without creating any further hazards. it does not go in there easily, and for good reason.
Well, code does set the minumum, but since #12 wiring is rated for 30A, and only fused @ 20A in residential, there is plenty of room for overhead; its a very safe minimum. i'm an electrician, and i used #14 on my general lighting and recep circuits in my house. its rated for 25A and fused at 15A.
I was most curious to see how they squeezed #10 wire into 15a-20a devices without creating any further hazards. it does not go in there easily, and for good reason.
There's national code and local code...
I live in Oakland and a 30 amp Dryer circuit... even 5 feet in length is required by code to be number 8... not a ghost chance of passing unless it's number 8
Lots of the housing stock here is from the 1920's... lots of the old #12 wire isn't suitable for for 30 amps due to the type of insulation on the conductor...
A few years ago... needed to run 120 volts to a shed about a 1000 feet away....
Found the easiest way to deal with the heavy gauge wire was to install a single breaker sub-panel and with the receptacle wired out the side with #12.
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