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I'm an electrician and lately my company has been doing a lot of remodel work on old houses. They have all been around one hundred years old. It's fascinating to see some of the old building techniques, materials, and features. Does anyone know any good websites to visit that may explain some of the things I find? Most of it I can figure out for myself, it's pretty easy to understand from working in construction for so long, but some things I don't fully understand and would like to find out. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
I know that there are some, but I cannot tell you the URL.
I mostly learned by reading a couple of old books on wiring for electricians. They are easy to find and some of them include pictures (usually sketches) and by talking to people who were weither really old and worked on houses, or just know that kind of thing (like my brother). .
I'm not concerned about the electrical, I've been doing this long enough that I know the why and the how of it. It's other parts of home construction.
We worked on a small bungalow from the early twenties. It had what the general contractor described as "a refrigerator before they made refrigerators" basically it was a cupboard with a vent at the top and the bottom that allowed cool air to circulate and keep food cool. I only got to see what was left of it, but was looking for information and pictures of one complete. The house also had a back porch root cellar that had been torn out by the time I got there, wanted to see some of that too. This house was interesting to me because it had been built with no electrical installed, the knob and tube had all been remodeled in. It also had, still, an asbestos lined fuse box on the back porch that still had the old knife switch disconnect in it.
Another house we worked on was built in 1910. It was an old three story farm house. It had a widow's watch and a walk up attic with ten foot ceilings in the attic. There was a chimney from the fireplace in the living room that extended up three stories made of rock. It looked like the rock we find in the ground in this area so I assume it was most likely recovered from the dirt excavated for the basement and foundation. Was that sort of thing common?
Some of the things I'm trying to understand are how long it took to build some of these homes. When did indoor plumbing and electrical become common to install in a new home? Why put a fireplace in a house if you already had wood stoves? I've found some homes with black joists and beams, why are they black? Is it just dirt because its doesn't seem like that? When did they stop using real 2x4's? Etc.
I've already learned a lot about the history of home construction and find it all to be terribly interesting. Our homes and our neighborhoods had such different cultures from what we have today and it all seemed to change just after WW2. I'm just looking for more resources to learn from.
Its a world of specialization. Every era has its experts. Old houses are Colonials, Victorians, Federals, Williamsburg, etc. Seek out these experts and visit their blogs and web sites, etc.
To start you off, we have a bona fide Victorian expert here on City Data. Search the posts of restorationconsultant, find his blog. Then move on to the next period.
I'm not concerned about the electrical, I've been doing this long enough that I know the why and the how of it. It's other parts of home construction.
We worked on a small bungalow from the early twenties. It had what the general contractor described as "a refrigerator before they made refrigerators" basically it was a cupboard with a vent at the top and the bottom that allowed cool air to circulate and keep food cool. I only got to see what was left of it, but was looking for information and pictures of one complete. The house also had a back porch root cellar that had been torn out by the time I got there, wanted to see some of that too. This house was interesting to me because it had been built with no electrical installed, the knob and tube had all been remodeled in. It also had, still, an asbestos lined fuse box on the back porch that still had the old knife switch disconnect in it.
Sounds like a typical 'ice-box' of the period. Something like this-
The iceman would deliver the ice block- goes in the lower right-hand door. And by a means of evaporation would keep perishables fresh for a period of time.
Another house we worked on was built in 1910. It was an old three story farm house. It had a widow's watch and a walk up attic with ten foot ceilings in the attic. There was a chimney from the fireplace in the living room that extended up three stories made of rock. It looked like the rock we find in the ground in this area so I assume it was most likely recovered from the dirt excavated for the basement and foundation. Was that sort of thing common?
Very common- brick was not only expensive (manufacture and transport) but, so was the cost of a good mason. By using materials from the land you could reduce and/or eliminate transport and manufacturing costs.
Some of the things I'm trying to understand are how long it took to build some of these homes. When did indoor plumbing and electrical become common to install in a new home? Why put a fireplace in a house if you already had wood stoves? I've found some homes with black joists and beams, why are they black? Is it just dirt because its doesn't seem like that? When did they stop using real 2x4's? Etc.
Here's an interesting article on the history of plumbing- The history of plumbing in America
Lower Manhattan- Greenwich Village were the 'first' to have electricity- 1880's. By the late 1920's electricity was becoming common place. MISCELLANEOUS CITY NEWS - EDISON'S ELECTRIC LIGHT. "THE TIMES" BUILDING ILLUMINATED BY ELECTRICITY. - View Article - NYTimes.com
Fireplaces were 'the' source of heat before the advent of stoves.
Most framing lumber around the turn of the last century was old growth timbers cut to dimensional sizes. Most was air dried, not kilned dried. Air drying would naturally turn the wood a darken color- the rest is age and dirt, dust, and soot from the fireplaces.
As far as sizes of dimensional lumber, this may answer your question- http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf
I've had a copy of this for many years.
I've already learned a lot about the history of home construction and find it all to be terribly interesting. Our homes and our neighborhoods had such different cultures from what we have today and it all seemed to change just after WW2. I'm just looking for more resources to learn from.
The main reason for such big changes after WW2 was because of the sudden demand for housing from returning veterans. A means of producing housing in a production manner was necessary. Enter Abraham Levitt. History
The main reason for such big changes after WW2 was because of the sudden demand for housing from returning veterans. A means of producing housing in a production manner was necessary. Enter Abraham Levitt. History
Thanks, that does help a lot. I've already read all about Levittown and the Levitt brothers, it was truly fascinating. I'll spend some time on the other links you gave.
That ice box is nothing like what was in this one house. It was a built-in, floor to ceiling cabinet. Like I said, I didn't get to see the whole thing, only what was left after it was torn out. I haven't been able to find anything like it on the internet yet. My grandparents actually have an icebox similar to the one in the picture, it was converted to a liquor cabinet.
None of the houses from the 1920s -> today that I've worked on have framing lumber that's an actual 2x4. It's the same size that modern wood is. I think it was 2x4 when cut, but then shrinks when it's dried.
What I find interesting are all the old electrical boxes that I come across in walls. 90 years ago they used the same exact size that we use now, with the same thread and location for the screws you install outlets and switches with. I had no idea the standard was that old.
None of the houses from the 1920s -> today that I've worked on have framing lumber that's an actual 2x4. It's the same size that modern wood is. I think it was 2x4 when cut, but then shrinks when it's dried.
What I find interesting are all the old electrical boxes that I come across in walls. 90 years ago they used the same exact size that we use now, with the same thread and location for the screws you install outlets and switches with. I had no idea the standard was that old.
THe new lumber is 2x4 before planing rather than after. Old lumber was 2x4 after planing.
The cooler that you are discussing is not an ice box. It is a cabinet for vegetables. They did not put ice in them. They were often called "California Coolers" California is the only place that i have seen them, but that does nto mean they were not used elsewhere with a different name. They used convection to draw cooler air from under the house up through the cabinet. They did nto really get cold, but were generally cooler than normal air temps. Mostly they woudl keep potatoes, fruits, and other vegetables in them.
One of our houses had one. Once we removed the morning glories that had grown up through it, it was pretty neat. It did keep things a bit cooler. On a hot day, it woudl be as much as 20 degrees cooler.
Most of the old metal outlet boxes are smaller than the modern plastic ones. You cannot fit a GFCI or a modern style recptacle into some of them. SOme will just barely fint and it is dangerous to try to use the new style outlets. Old style outlets are still commonly used and fit fine. The old boxes do nto have a lot of room to allow the outlet box to be used for junctions. Some of the newer boxes have tons of room for that purpose.
Victorian is not a syle of house. It is a time period and covers many different popular styles.
If your lumber is still srinking as it dries, then you are going to have major problems. It is suppoed to be dried before they ship it. However much of the newer lumber is not dried. That is why you somteims have to tear it out after you build a wall. It twists and bows as it dries.
Electrical and plumbing varied from area to area. The town we lived in in Califronia had electricity for some places in the 1880s (maybe a bit earlier). A rancher who thought electricty was cool installed a generator on his ranch and supplied power for friends. Many areas still had not electricity and outdoor plumbing though at least the beginning of WW II. It depends on where you are and how much money they had.
There are thouands of neat things to learn about old house construction and then lots of different opinions about everything too. Framing is intersting. Many older homes were baloon framed. Prior to that, they used brace framing. prior to brace framing, you are looking at basically log cabins with no framing.
Many engineers argue that balloon framing is far superior structurally to the stick framing that they use today. However it is not popular becuase you can no longerget the lumber sizes you need and becuase they did not put firestops in balloon framed houses and fire would travel quickly through the walls. There are a lot of myths about balloon framing. In fact, there are a lot of myths about many types of construciton and construction materials from the past 200 years. A lot of misinformation is put out there under the guise of scientific articles. These are usually published and paid for by people or companies who stand to benefit form people beliveing that new is better and old is unsafe. They are often published in mainstream magazines, but contain inaccurate, incomplete or completely fabricated facts. Thus you ahve to be careful. There are also people wt there who believe anything old is better. This is also untrue. Some things are better, some are worse. Usually it is more an exaggeration rather than a complete fabrication. For example, a grounded electrical system is in fact safer than a non grounded one. However it is not likely that a non grounded system will ever case you a problem. There is a risk, but it is pretty rmeote. However many peopole (including many electricians who want the money to re-wire a house) will flail their arms int eh air when they see a non-grounded system and tell you that your house will burn down tomorrow and you will be electrocuted the day after if you do nto immediately re-wire the house.
It is a fun hpobby and soritng out the real facts, from the hype, myths and opinions cna be frustrating, but it is really neat. There is so much to learn, theat you can spend forever learning it and never know it all. The architectural styles mentioned is a complete area of knowlege by itself. Many houses blend different styles thus, even the experts will give completely different opinions about the style of the house. One former house we had was deisgnated Colonial Revivial, Craftsman, Stick, "Victorian" and maybe one or tow other styles in different books. My lable was "cool old house" However "victorian is not a style. It is often used to refer to Queen Anne, Stick, shingle or tudor style homes, but it can include any style that was popular during the reign of queen victoria. I think that there are smoething like 25 different recognizzed styles from this period, many of which were revivials of earlier styles.
THe new lumber is 2x4 before planing rather than after. Old lumber was 2x4 after planing.
The cooler that you are discussing is not an ice box. It is a cabinet for vegetables. They did not put ice in them. They were often called "California Coolers" California is the only place that i have seen them, but that does nto mean they were not used elsewhere with a different name. They used convection to draw cooler air from under the house up through the cabinet. They did nto really get cold, but were generally cooler than normal air temps. Mostly they woudl keep potatoes, fruits, and other vegetables in them.
One of our houses had one. Once we removed the morning glories that had grown up through it, it was pretty neat. It did keep things a bit cooler. On a hot day, it woudl be as much as 20 degrees cooler.
Thanks, that helps a lot. The cooler I saw was in East Tacoma. The general contractor told me that they used to put ice in them, guess he was mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Most of the old metal outlet boxes are smaller than the modern plastic ones. You cannot fit a GFCI or a modern style recptacle into some of them. SOme will just barely fint and it is dangerous to try to use the new style outlets. Old style outlets are still commonly used and fit fine. The old boxes do nto have a lot of room to allow the outlet box to be used for junctions. Some of the newer boxes have tons of room for that purpose.
Yeah, they are considerably smaller when it comes to internal volume, but the cut-out dimensions are not far off from what we use today. We even still use some with the exact same cut-out size Just slightly deeper. When it comes to remodeling the electrical, I remove everything old that I can get my hands on and run all new so I know it was done right. It's also easier than trying to figure out what six different electricians and homeowners have done to screw it up.
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