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Great advice really appreciate it, talked to the wife and we are going to cut the cement. I was thinking before I heard about a different type of toilet I would rent a saw and a jack hammer because there should be re-barb in the cement to cut.
One more question that I have now is how do you lower the pipe 1/2" for ever foot, is the main line deeper in the ground then I think because I am thinking that it is just below the cement. And if it is then I would have to run the pvc level with the ground.
Thanks again
Rocky
That is why I said you need to dig a pit around the main drain. So you can cut into the line far enough down to get your required slope. If its only a 1/4" as it is here, a 12 foot run would only require a 3" drop. So you remove the floor drain basin, cut the pipe, put in a T at the right depth and then replace the drain basin to the pipe.
Slow Down,
These slopes are way over done-
IRC (International Residential Code)
P3002.3.1 Drainage.
Drainage fittings shall have a smooth interior waterway of the same diameter as the piping served. All fittings shall conform to the type of pipe used. Drainage fittings shall have no ledges, shoulders or reductions which can retard or obstruct drainage flow in the piping. Threaded drainage pipe fittings shall be of the recessed drainage type, black or galvanized. Drainage fittings shall be designed to maintain one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) grade. This section shall not be applicable to tubular waste fittings used to convey vertical flow upstream of the trap seal liquid level of a fixture trap.
"Two Percent"!
That's like the bubble on the line (torpedo level).
Several yrs ago I saw an interesting demonstration of a toilet flushing packing peanuts and the resulting travel through a clear 3" tube. If the tube (pipe) was set with a 1/4" fall it would leave the "waste" behind.
At 1/8" it would still leave "waste" behind.
At dead level the flush would actually "stay together" as a blob of water containing the "waste". This is the characteristic you actually want-
If you have too much fall the water out paces the "waste".
If your total run is over 20' you could have a problem, but by your description it sounded like you might be less than 10'(?)
Great advice really appreciate it, talked to the wife and we are going to cut the cement. I was thinking before I heard about a different type of toilet I would rent a saw and a jack hammer because there should be re-barb in the cement to cut.
One more question that I have now is how do you lower the pipe 1/2" for ever foot, is the main line deeper in the ground then I think because I am thinking that it is just below the cement. And if it is then I would have to run the pvc level with the ground.
Thanks again
Rocky
The line should be deeper than just below the concrete. First off, it will need to go under your outer wall foundation support structure, likely about 1' below your floor level. That's what we found in our basement. You may need to lay some of the venting connections at an angle (vs. perpendicular to floor level), in order to get your runs to fit.
It's best if you get someone who knows what he's doing on the plumbing. I had my son, who is well into his plumber apprenticeship, doing the plumbing. There is a lot of stuff I would have done wrong without his help.
As a side note, we used to have a wall mounted toilet. It had a restroom quality look (picture wall mounted urinals). Trust me, your wife wouldn't like the look.
If the tube (pipe) was set with a 1/4" fall it would leave the "waste" behind.
At 1/8" it would still leave "waste" behind.
At dead level the flush would actually "stay together" as a blob of water containing the "waste". This is the characteristic you actually want-
If you have too much fall the water out paces the "waste".
When we remodeled our basement bathroom, we removed all or the sheetrock, exposing the upstairs plumbing drainage. My son noticed the line for the kitchen sink, bath sinks and bathtub, had a 1/4"+ fall to it and said the same thing. I guess there was enough water flowing from all the fixtures that it didn't plug up (disposal waste). He fixed that too before we put sheetrock back up.
I am just going to dig over to an existing drain that is already vented or I assume I am, so way do I need venting connections?
The short answer- so the traps don't get sucked dry. Which would result in sewer gas entering the living space.
A typical one wall bath setup. The stack behind the toilet from the floor up is a vent. If there were no other plumbing fixtures above it, it would be considered a dry vent. If other plumbing fixtures fed into it (say a 2nd floor bath- if this was a 1st floor bath) it would be a wet vent.
In some cases, there are no practical means of running a vent for a plumbing fixture drain- this is where AAV's (Air Admittance Valve- AKA: Studor Valve) come into play.
The main thing about this setup is everything is a short distance from the vent- when you get to far away you'll have problems unless you create a "new vent".
I don't understand the vent thing I understand having a vent water can't go out if air doesn't go in. The vent it goes out of the roof but isn't that all you need is the vent that is already there. Where the bathroom is plumbed in already in the basement there isn't a vent for the fixtures how are you going to put a toilet and sink if there there isn't a vent. I don't see how you could put in a vent from the basement to the roof and I don't see where the vent is for my house because it is above the basement in the wall some where so I can't T in to that vent. There is only two bathrooms, kitchen and a laundry room upstairs so how many vents can there be going out the roof.
Without a physical inspection of your home it would be pure speculation on my part as to how or why your home is plumbed the way it is. Or the best cause of action to make it meet code.
Maybe this pdf will help you understand the venting process and why I mentioned "distance from" earlier.
I believe code requires that anything downstream from a toilet be air vented above said toilet. This is an over-simplification of plumbing code and there are other instances why you would need a vent. Said vent can tie into your main vent stack or it can be an independent vent going to the roof.
What can happen is that water flushed from the upstairs toilet can suck the water out of the traps in your basement sink, toilet and/or bathtub/shower. Sewer gases can then enter your basement. When we remodeled our basement bathroom, we found that none of the plumbing fixtures were to code. It may have been code when the house was built, but it wasn't to today's code.
Instead of venting through the roof why couldn't you run the vent along the upstairs floor and out side just above the foundation say in the back yard.
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