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When our bathroom vent fan was installed, a rocket scientist screwed the fasteners into the lath around the hole they cut. The hole is not enar any cieling joists, so the fan is supported entirely by screws into the 1/4 inch lath boards. Over time, the lath broke away from the plaster of the cieling and left the vent unit flapping. Cleary this should have been framed in somehow.
I need to frame around the hole to provide something for the ven fan to attach to. I will also gorilla glue the lath back down to the plaster, because, a foot away, the plaster is covered with tile for the shower and I do not want to risk the plaster under the tile breaking away from the lath and sagging.
I have never installed a cieling vent fan (I have replaced them into an existing slot). I intend to simply use a 2x4 stud on either side nailed between the cieling joists. Then I will put some holes in the vent fan box up a little higher than the provided mounting holes and screw it into the stud with drywall screws.
Is there anything I need to know/consider in doing this? I would hate to do it, and then find out there is some problem fastening in the vent fan in this way.
I might use 1x2 boards between the joists instead of 2x4 becuase it may be easier to put them in. There is very little space up in the attic and it is unbearably hot and gross up there. I want to be able to put them in as fast as possoble (actually I will probably have my son int he attic and I will stay below. We will nail the studs in with a palm nailer.
Nails and vibration == will not stay together long. Use screws, the kind they sell to hold together outdoor decks are terriffic for this kind of thing.
Heh, too funny, a few months ago I finally fixed a long-botched installation of my own (literally my own, I put in a new fan here a few years back). A few more years of practical experience made it easy to figure out when I got back up in the attic. The layout up there is weird and left me with not really the right height of joist to mount the fan (this place is prebuilt trusses so they are only 2x4). So I attached a piece of 2x2 stake I had bought for outside, and then I was able to use the upper mounting holes for mounting the fan (thus 4 screws instead of 2). Helluva difference in the noise! What an idiot, all this time I'm thinking it's just a noisy fan when almost all of it was vibration noise from a crap install job.
Anyway, yeah, screws, I have those deck screws around from when I had an old deck I repaired occasionally (I've since demo'd that and am building a patio). The deck screws are what I used to attach the extra piece of wood. They drive in easy with any power drill (I still had a fairly cheesy old one until recently). Often they use square drive and they come with the proper bit in the package.
So long story short, screws for both places will keep the fan tighter longer.
Have you been up in the attic for a look? My fan box has screw holes on the *outside* of the box (on tabs, so to speak) for ease of mounting while in the attic. Might be worth checking for this on yours. This is possibly going to be more secure or at least maybe have the mounting points more accessible than trying to mount from below. You don't need to use particularly long screws for the fan box as you're probably just holding up a layer of sheet metal, and it's not that heavy (though you ideally want 4 screws at least holding it up). There shouldn't be a problem if you have to drill your own mounting holes, but you do want to be sure that those are going to work. Long as you're working with the sides of the fan that's probably fine; the top would be trickier.
I think it would be harder to mount a 1x2 board between the joists, more likely to split. That's just me. You could try the 2x2 stakes like I had, I bought them at Lowe's in a 6-pack. They're 2ft long so your joists would have to be closer than that and I'm not sure of the typical spec. Still I was driving the 2x2 flat down onto the joist. Trying to do what you're doing, I think the 4" width is going to help you, more room for error. And use the screws! Even if you use the nailer to tack these into place at first, put the screws to them after.
Don't forget you have to work around a vent pipe somewhere. That was another bit of a hack job for mine. The old one had a 3" exhaust and the new one a 4". Something about the config up there made this troublesome, although it does work. If the vent comes out on the side that you want to put one of these boards, it could be a snag. Be prepared for it.
THank you. Actually screws are easier to instal in some ways. The palm nailer requires I lug my compressor upstairs. Screws just take longer. Every second in the attic is going to be hell. Even though we have insualtaion on the underside of the roof (foam) it will stil lbe hot. That part of the house was built in 1850, so there is a lot of yuck up in the attic, including probably some Raccoon poo. We has somone clean it out up there, but they probably did nto get all of it. I was going to use the nailer becuase the person in the attic could get out faster. However it sounds like screw gun is the wat to go. Good thing I have a son.
The screws shouldn't be that much slower. I get the whole attic thing. I sure haven't been up in mine recently; I fixed my fan a few months ago when it wasn't very hot yet. And even then it's still kinda suffocating up there in some ways, plus there's having to avoid falling through the ceiling, etc....
Anyway, since it's going to be dark up there either way you might as well try to plan it when it won't be quite as hot yet, like early morning. I know it doesn't exactly cool down a ton but it should cool off a little bit vs middle of day.
Not sure if this is going to be practical since I can't see what you are up against, but it might be possible to clean up the hole, pull the fan out and lay it aside, then screw together 2 sets of 2 boards (either 2X4 or 1X4), put them up into the hole, then run screws through the lath into them to make the "box", and do all this from inside the bathroom, working overhead.
It also might be possible to get a fabricated box, or have a sheet metal outfit make one for you out of tin. This could be set up to push up into the hole, then reach over on at least 2 sides with a 2X4, run some screws through the tin box, up through the lath and into the 2X4 board. The purpose of the 2X4 here is just to give the screws something to really bite into on the far side of the lath. The lath would still be supporting the fan box, depending on its condition, that might or might not make sense.
Like I said, looking at the job eye to eye, this may sound completely nuts, if so, never mind.
Here is what I would do...
Do this job in the early morning. While it will still be fairly warm/hot, its better than in the middle or late part of the day.
A palm nailer will create a lot of vibration that is not good for plaster. If you have a air framing nailer it will create less stress. Or use screws. Either one is pretty fast.
Use a 2x4 for the cross piece. Less chance of splitting and gives you more surface to attach the fan. It will also be less likely to twist or rotate.
Have son go in attic and measure distance between ceiling joists. Cut 2x4 and hand up thru hole in ceiling. Secure with a few screws then install fan.
Be sure to extend exhaust vent to outside air.
As a home inspector, I'm in attics every day. Yesterday's attic was 125, and it was only 90 outside. While it is HOT, its not that bad for the 10 minutes this job should take (the attic part).
Oh one other issue. There is only about 3 feet of clearance in the attic and you have to wiggle over some framing beams to get to the location of the vent fan. That is another reason my son will go up, he is lighter, smaller, more flexible and easily bribed with $10. I will just have to have him pracctice with a screw gun a few times.
HTank you for your help. I am very concerned about damaing the plaster, especially the part with tile over it.
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