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Ok, now that we know he was just replacing a coil, and not an air handler, you can get an idea of his markup on the initial quoted repair. That cased coil is running about $329 on eBay http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=37254339945
So $80 worth of R22 ( street price for r22 is about $10/pound) $329 for the part = $1800 for labor & overhead, which I believe is pretty darn high for a job that might take a couple of hours.
I'd definitely get some more quotes, cause this guy is riding you like a pony.
The second quote is including under $2k in parts- the rest is labor, profit & overhead.
I could almost justify his markup, but he isn't doing a load calc for you, and I'd bet you're oversized with 6 tons of cooling for 2400 sq feet, unless your house is built like a shack, that's a lot of a/c.
I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but you could do a Goodman unit for probably half that quoted price - you're paying top dollar for a bargain-basement unit.
One more thing you should know, before the HVAC guys on this board begin to flame me - based on my own observations of the HVAC trade...
If you call around for half-a-dozen quotes on new systems, you'll see a parade of shiney $60k lifted/4x4/diesel pickups with fancy logos in your driveway over the next few days.
Each of those trucks will disgorge a well-fed "small businessman" in a crisp outfit, with manicured nails & perfect teeth.
That "businessman" will be charming, well-spoken & very persuasive in his arguements on why his system and installation is the best in the world.
One of those guys will be sooo persuasive, that you'll cut him a check for half the job, as a deposit... and that check will, in fact, cover *all* the materials, and the labor to install your system.
'Cause the guy in the fancy truck is going to call his "installer" - who is in fact, unlicensed, and an "independent contractor" to actually do the work.
That installer will roll up in flip-flops and a tee-shirt (in a car that's worth under $1,000), install your complete system, test it, and clean up, all in just a few hours.
Then the guy in the shiney pickup will stop by, collect the balance of the contract, and count out three or four $100 bills for the installer, and grumble to himself about how much tax he's going to have to pay...
OK, now you can read the flames about how much "overhead" there is in the HVAC business.... :-)
Ok, now that we know he was just replacing a coil, and not an air handler, you can get an idea of his markup on the initial quoted repair. That cased coil is running about $329 on eBay http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=37254339945
So $80 worth of R22 ( street price for r22 is about $10/pound) $329 for the part = $1800 for labor & overhead, which I believe is pretty darn high for a job that might take a couple of hours.
I'd definitely get some more quotes, cause this guy is riding you like a pony.
The second quote is including under $2k in parts- the rest is labor, profit & overhead.
I could almost justify his markup, but he isn't doing a load calc for you, and I'd bet you're oversized with 6 tons of cooling for 2400 sq feet, unless your house is built like a shack, that's a lot of a/c.
I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but you could do a Goodman unit for probably half that quoted price, and it would have double the warranty. Lennox is only 5 years, so even if their product is better, they aren't standing behind it, and you're paying top dollar for a bargain-basement unit.
A lot of the posts in this group seem to be negative about Goodman, so I don't want to go there.
That R22 at $10/pound might be obtainable *somewhere* but I don't know where to get it for that and others I've spoken with who replaced R22 recently have paid $40-$70 pound for an HVAC person to add--so I wasn't feeling gouged.
I hear you though about the 6 tons for 2300 sq ft. I asked him about that suggesting that we replace the 4 ton unit with a 3 ton one and he said that when the units were sized for the house, the high ceilings were calculated into it, and that it's probably necessary, but I suspect it's overkill. The house also has a pool but I don't think the pump for that would require more tonnage. And the builder did so many other stupid things with this house, I don't trust their 'calculations.' (I've spent more than I wanted on this place trying to address issues that I would attribute to 'builder greed.' And the Texas building codes are really pathetic. You would think that an 11-year-old house would be built better, but my previous 40-year-old house actually had far less issues.)
In any case, I've decided to replace the condenser too, so no more R22. The parts, labor, and tax (which can be a max of 8.25% here) for the coil, plenum, TXV valve, coolant + condenser unit will come to: $4700 (if Lennox 13ACX - 13 seer) or $5250 (if Lennox XC13 - 15.5 seer). And it is August here. They will be working part of the time in an attic that could be 120F? 130F? Although $5250 is a big pain, I'm leaning toward the XC13 as perhaps 15.5 seer plus the .5 from the TXV device could get me close to 16 seer and I could recoup some yearly savings?
A lot of the posts in this group seem to be negative about Goodman, so I don't want to go there.
That R22 at $10/pound might be obtainable *somewhere* but I don't know where to get it for that and others I've spoken with who replaced R22 recently have paid $40-$70 gallon for an HVAC person to add--so I wasn't feeling gouged.
I hear you though about the 6 tons for 2300 sq ft. I asked him about that suggesting that we replace the 4 ton unit with a 3 ton one and he said that when the units were sized for the house, the high ceilings were calculated into it, and that it's probably necessary, but I suspect it's overkill. The house also has a pool but I don't think the pump for that would require more tonnage. And the builder did so many other stupid things with this house, I don't trust their 'calculations.' (I've spent more than I wanted on this place trying to address issues that I would attribute to 'builder greed.' And the Texas building codes are really pathetic. You would think that an 11-year-old house would be built better, but my previous 40-year-old house actually had far less issues.)
In any case, I've decided to replace the condenser too, so no more R22. The parts, labor, and tax (which can be a max of 8.25% here) for the coil, plenum, TXV valve, coolant + condenser unit will come to: $4700 (if Lennox 13ACX - 13 seer) or $5250 (if Lennox XC13 - 15.5 seer). And it is August here. They will be working part of the time in an attic that could be 120F? 130F? Although $5250 is a big pain, I'm leaning toward the XC13 as perhaps 15.5 seer plus the .5 from the TXV device could get me close to 16 seer and I could recoup some yearly savings?
You are being gouged (see my updated post above)- but I'm glad your happy.
You are being gouged (see my updated post above)- but I'm glad your happy.
No, gouging would not make me happy. And I see what you're referring to on the original $2200 amount--because now with a new system coming with coolant, that quote should drop considerably--coolant is not in the picture--and that would be way too much for just the coil and plenum. So, I'm pushing back on that.
I do appreciate all the feedback from everyone. This has been a huge help (and I've learned so much about HVAC today :-) )
No, gouging would not make me happy. And I see what you're referring to on the original $2200 amount--because now with a new system coming with coolant, that quote should drop considerably--coolant is not in the picture--and that would be way too much for just the coil and plenum. So, I'm pushing back on that.
I do appreciate all the feedback from everyone. This has been a huge help (and I've learned so much about HVAC today :-) )
The coil is still a $329 coil, and the outdoor unit might be costing the dealer $1500. $100 for a txv, and a half-days labor for the installer. The rest of your $4k+ quote is truck payments for your contractor.
The coil is still a $329 coil, and the outdoor unit might be costing the dealer $1500. $100 for a txv, and a half-days labor for the installer. The rest of your $4k+ quote is truck payments for your contractor.
Yes, this site shows the 13XC with a wholesale price of $1950. And a metal plenum is about $100. But isn't there often a 2:1 ratio of labor to parts? Compare Lennox Air Conditioner Prices
Yes, this site shows the 13XC with a wholesale price of $1950. And a metal plenum is about $100. But isn't there often a 2:1 ratio of labor to parts? Compare Lennox Air Conditioner Prices
Your installer marked up the r22 he was putting in 500%, then charged you labor to install it. Installing freon isn't busting rocks. How many tradespeople charge $500+ per hour of labor? That's about what your paying him - is he worth it?
Your installer marked up the r22 he was putting in 500%, then charged you labor to install it. Installing freon isn't busting rocks. How many tradespeople charge $500+ per hour of labor? That's about what your paying him - is he worth it?
Well, I'm not paying him to install freon now (since the coolant will come with the new unit). I am totaling up the part costs though and their labor across the entire project still seems high, so it's back to 'negotiations' or hiring someone else.
Well, I'm not paying him to install freon now (since the coolant will come with the new unit). I am totaling up the part costs though and their labor across the entire project still seems high, so it's back to 'negotiations' or hiring someone else.
Well he may still need to add refrigerant depending on how far away your cooling coil is from your condenser.
Just an FYI but R-22 has gone up dramatically over the past two years. It used to run about $250 for a 30 lb cylinder. Now it's ranging anywhere from $350 - $400 for that same amount depending on the manufacturer of the refrigerant. The "drop in" replacement for R-22 is about $275 for a 25 lb cylinder while R-410a is running about $140 for a 25 lb cylinder.
The coil is still a $329 coil, and the outdoor unit might be costing the dealer $1500. $100 for a txv, and a half-days labor for the installer. The rest of your $4k+ quote is truck payments for your contractor.
Didn't we go over this is another thread? I told you exactly all of the tools that are needed to install an HVAC system per the manufacture's requirements. It's not cheap to buy those parts or keep them all in good working order but I have a feeling you wouldn't be so apprehensive if you paid a 100% markup at something like a grocery store where you're paying for a building, the electric bill, the water bill, refrigerators, employees, cleaning crews, preventative maintenance on all of their equipment, etc, etc, etc because I can assure you that you are paying twice the wholesale cost for items at your local grocer. You're also paying anywhere from a 70% - 200% markup on restaurants, fast food places, shoe stores, electronics stores, big box home centers, etc, etc, etc...
No flaming here just pointing out the obvious...
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