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Hello! I'm about to start doing a bathroom vanity update.
We're going from one sink to two. We had a plumber out that took a peek (nothing removed yet) of the old setup and quoted $450 to stub out for a second sink. We plan to remove the old vanity tonight. He said no-problem running drain and water lines over to tie in a second sink. Is it OK to drill drain lines through exterior-wall studs, we ask? Sure, he says, no problem. If they're 2x4 rather than 2x6 (we don't really know yet, haven't seen exterior studs in this house yet), and you want to be extra-sure, just go over to the local hardware store and pick up a couple of stud shoes. But sure, this is a small project, no big deal.
Great, I'm not worried anymore, right? He did work for us before - when my carefully screened angie's list plumbers all completely bailed on a sprinkler project, a friend of my husband's recommended this guy, who did his "whole house" and did a "great job". And he did a good job with ours, far as we can tell.
So I go to hardware store to pick up said shoe, and they guy's never heard of it. He asks another guy, who HAS heard of them, but they don't carry them. Sent me to the plumber next door. He doesn't carry them either, has never heard of them. I asked him if it's OK to cut through load-bearing studs or NOT, because I don't know. He says, well, what's the inspector say? Make it the city's problem. Hell, it didn't even occur to me to get a permit for something this simple. I guess maybe he's right, but it's just a stupid sink stub out, and the plumber is scheduled for tomorrow.
Nobody sells these shoes locally and I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is OK, or not. I've seen one relatively consistent reference to cutting no more than 40% of the width of a load-bearing stud. I know a 2x4 is no QUITE 4", but for sake of argument, there's room for a 1.25" drain pipe in there. Just. I think? And if it's a 2x6, no problem, right?
I don't want to go swiss-cheesing my second floor exterior wall for a sink if that's not OK. I don't want to drag the city's slow-***** inspection process into this if I don't have to. Fine for stuff that I don't have to work around, but no master bath sink is a big PITA. Not as big as my roof falling in, no, but still. They. Are. SLOW.
I'd like to know what I'm talking about (a little) before plumber shows up. Should I expect the drain going through studs to be 1.25"? Is it normal to cut through a load-bearing stud to install them in a 2x4 wall? a 2x6?
There are load charts; different types/sizes for certain scenarios, etc.
Also, the plumber is probably going to use a 2" bore/forstner bit for the drain line, whether using 1-1/4 or 1-1/2" pipe. Making the bore too tight creates noise because of the expansion and contraction of the PVC. Besides, he's probably only going through 1-2 studs anyway.
I would not waste time worrying about "Swiss cheesing" your exterior walls. Stud shoes are a very legitimate means of reinforcing studs that need to have plumbing lines bored through them.
I might be concerned about other things, like if there are already lines in the exterior wall have you experienced ant issues with freezing, and maybe why are just now thinking about permits / inspection instead of contemplating how the NEED for this should have prompted better preparation...
btw I would ALWAYS take a plumber that has been recommended by a friend / has done work before WELL BEFORE I would EVER waste time / money with goofy "web site recommendation services". AND probably 90% of jokers working in local hardware stores don't more than a HANDFUL of common items, your plumber is to be FAR MORE TRUSTED than some retail clerk...
Last edited by chet everett; 08-14-2012 at 12:06 AM..
Being in the Seattle area, freezing isn't as big of a concern compared to the mid-west, but more of a concern compared to Florida. I would invest in some insulation to make sure they don't freeze. Depending on what is there, I'd go with spray foam to get between the outer wall and pipes.
Maybe I am at a loss here but if just going from a one sink to a two sink vanity why the need to run anything through the wall? Just move/extend/join present pipes (water and drain) to service each sink?
Maybe I am at a loss here but if just going from a one sink to a two sink vanity why the need to run anything through the wall? Just move/extend/join present pipes (water and drain) to service each sink?
Thanks
Well, there's do it right, do it once-
And then there's redneck plumbing-
Maybe I am at a loss here but if just going from a one sink to a two sink vanity why the need to run anything through the wall? Just move/extend/join present pipes (water and drain) to service each sink?
Thanks
If the existing vanity was done correctly the drop from the sink plug to the trap and then from the trap into the wall isn't sufficient to tie-in a second. Each bowl should have its own trap (and trap vent) so waste from one doesn't back-up into the other.
Hello! I'm about to start doing a bathroom vanity update.
We're going from one sink to two. We had a plumber out that took a peek (nothing removed yet) of the old setup and quoted $450 to stub out for a second sink. We plan to remove the old vanity tonight. He said no-problem running drain and water lines over to tie in a second sink. Is it OK to drill drain lines through exterior-wall studs, we ask? Sure, he says, no problem. If they're 2x4 rather than 2x6 (we don't really know yet, haven't seen exterior studs in this house yet), and you want to be extra-sure, just go over to the local hardware store and pick up a couple of stud shoes. But sure, this is a small project, no big deal.
A 2x6 would be preferred in most cases.
Great, I'm not worried anymore, right? He did work for us before - when my carefully screened angie's list plumbers all completely bailed on a sprinkler project, a friend of my husband's recommended this guy, who did his "whole house" and did a "great job". And he did a good job with ours, far as we can tell.
We noticed Angies' List subs seem much more likely to bail than any other type of referral. We're curious why this seems to be the case.
So I go to hardware store to pick up said shoe, and they guy's never heard of it. He asks another guy, who HAS heard of them, but they don't carry them. Sent me to the plumber next door. He doesn't carry them either, has never heard of them. I asked him if it's OK to cut through load-bearing studs or NOT, because I don't know. He says, well, what's the inspector say? Make it the city's problem. Hell, it didn't even occur to me to get a permit for something this simple. I guess maybe he's right, but it's just a stupid sink stub out, and the plumber is scheduled for tomorrow.
Nobody sells these shoes locally and I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is OK, or not. I've seen one relatively consistent reference to cutting no more than 40% of the width of a load-bearing stud. I know a 2x4 is no QUITE 4", but for sake of argument, there's room for a 1.25" drain pipe in there. Just. I think? And if it's a 2x6, no problem, right?
I don't want to go swiss-cheesing my second floor exterior wall for a sink if that's not OK. I don't want to drag the city's slow-***** inspection process into this if I don't have to. Fine for stuff that I don't have to work around, but no master bath sink is a big PITA. Not as big as my roof falling in, no, but still. They. Are. SLOW.
I'd like to know what I'm talking about (a little) before plumber shows up. Should I expect the drain going through studs to be 1.25"? Is it normal to cut through a load-bearing stud to install them in a 2x4 wall? a 2x6?
Take pics of the drilling/notching with a tape measure in view for reference before replacing drywall.
If the existing vanity was done correctly the drop from the sink plug to the trap and then from the trap into the wall isn't sufficient to tie-in a second. Each bowl should have its own trap (and trap vent) so waste from one doesn't back-up into the other.
My plumber son told me a study was done where they found that a level pipe actually moved waste better. If the pipe slope is too steep, draining water moved too fast leaving the waste behind. The level pipe allowed the waste to "float" and move with the water as it drained. So, I don't think it will be too big of a problem if the drain pipe is level for a short distance.
I would ask the plumber to buy the necessary parts/supplies and requote you. If I don't know what to buy, I ain't buyin' it - and hardware store clerks have steered me wrong more than once...
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