Soundproofing mancave from kids rooms... (floors, ceiling, installing, bonus room)

[lenniel]

buying a new construc home that has a room over the garage (ROG) on the 2nd floor (ideal mancave room) but that room is also on the same floor as kids rooms and it contains laundry room. There's also another large room on the 3rd Fl, directly above the kids rooms that the wife wants me to use as mancave b/c she wants the kids in the 2nd Fl room (ROG) to be closer to first floor, same room as laundry etc.

Therefore, if I can't convince her to give me the ROG (which would solve my problems), I need to do some serious soundproofing between the mancave on 3rd Fl and kids rooms directly underneath on 2nd FL ("hey guys, come over and watch the big game, but please keep your voices down, no celebrating scores and no jumping around acting a fool".....if you can't do those things, why have a mancave?)

I've talked to the builder and it sounds like their solution is thick insulation between 3rd and 2nd floors. I would probably also put a thin carpet on the 3rd floor as well. Anyone else with similar issues or ideas for solutions.
Thanks

[chet everett]

Insulation is NOT effective in keeping the kinds of "cheering during a big game noise" truly isolated from adjoining rooms. What you want / need to do ESPECIALLY as you have not yet started construction is to study the techniques of using things like OFFSET CEILING JOISTS and STAGGERED STUDS to allow minimal transmission between the studs. These techniques are CHEAP AND EASY, adding only a tiny amount of material costs and maybe half a day or LESS or extra labor. The results are DRAMATIC -- I know families that have used these techniques to literally create a home audio studio where you can have rock bands with full drum sets and amplified electronic bass and it is quite enough a floor down to think it is just a normal portable radio, two floors down a baby could be sleeping. Really effective. Here is a good place to start reading up: Building a Room Within a Room - Soundproofing for Your Room or Studio

That firm also sells the acoustically isolated adhesives and special drywall that does dramatically reduce sound level but honestly since you have an opportunity to really do things right you'd be NUTS not to sit down with the builder and get him to agree to price out the offset ceiling joists and staggered studs. Very very cost effective. Well worth it to future buyers too as the knock against "upstairs bonus rooms" is ALWAYS lack of sound isolation regardless of whether you want to use it for media rooms, kids playroom, guest room or just someplace to read in peace.

[golfgal]

My dad was investigating soundproofing his woodshop (basement though) and several builders suggested installing egg cartons between the joists. I want to say that you put them in a double off-set pattern and then drywalled. It's an inexpensive solution . I don't know if he ever did that though. I haven't looked. I'll check when we visit next time and let you know.

[chet everett]

The sharp high pitched mechanical whine of power tools is, believe it or not, lots easy to muffle with acoustic foam than the heavy low frequency sounds of cheering sports fans, and in a basement the mass of the concrete floors and walls prevent a lot of the sound transmission that would happen in a second or third floor bonus room.

Originally Posted by golfgal

My dad was investigating soundproofing his woodshop (basement though) and several builders suggested installing egg cartons between the joists. I want to say that you put them in a double off-set pattern and then drywalled. It's an inexpensive solution . I don't know if he ever did that though. I haven't looked. I'll check when we visit next time and let you know.

[K'ledgeBldr]

The old way apartments were done was either resilient channel (hat channel) and/or double plate and they would pour grout or ariated concrete mix 1-1/2" thick.

Today, that wouldn't make it in a budget. Now it's more "green", larger spacing, off-set spacing, and isolation. Homasote is again garnering a lot of attention.
Check the examples on the second page of this pdf-
http://www.homasote.com/news/440sb6-2012.pdf

Another thing to keep in mind- density controls sound waves. No reasonable amount of f/glass insulation will control sound waves as good as the same thickness of mineral wool.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Insulation is NOT effective in keeping the kinds of "cheering during a big game noise" truly isolated from adjoining rooms. What you want / need to do ESPECIALLY as you have not yet started construction is to study the techniques of using things like OFFSET CEILING JOISTS and STAGGERED STUDS to allow minimal transmission between the studs. These techniques are CHEAP AND EASY, adding only a tiny amount of material costs and maybe half a day or LESS or extra labor. The results are DRAMATIC -- I know families that have used these techniques to literally create a home audio studio where you can have rock bands with full drum sets and amplified electronic bass and it is quite enough a floor down to think it is just a normal portable radio, two floors down a baby could be sleeping. Really effective. Here is a good place to start reading up: Building a Room Within a Room - Soundproofing for Your Room or Studio

That firm also sells the acoustically isolated adhesives and special drywall that does dramatically reduce sound level but honestly since you have an opportunity to really do things right you'd be NUTS not to sit down with the builder and get him to agree to price out the offset ceiling joists and staggered studs. Very very cost effective. Well worth it to future buyers too as the knock against "upstairs bonus rooms" is ALWAYS lack of sound isolation regardless of whether you want to use it for media rooms, kids playroom, guest room or just someplace to read in peace.

Thanks for that great info. Unfortunately, the house was already framed/studded when we bought it so we're past the stage of making any structural changes, especially to interior/load bearing supports, etc. Therefore, we're stuck with doing what we can prior to drywall and ceiling installation.

[chet everett]

The idea of using the offset joists and studs is to isolate surfaces that would otherwise be coupled to the structure -- the strength of the building is STILl provided by the walls and ceiling that are already up, the offset elements literally cresate a secondary "room within a room" for a relatively modest amount of material and time.

I would still strongly recommend doing this as long you don't have any drywall up to rip down!

The key factors are the new offset studs will give a de-coupled space as will the new ceiling joists -- they are only supporting drywall not the whole house.

As k'wldgeblder states the choice of insulation is important, as is the kind of drywall and adhesives -- the firm that supplied the links above sells the preferred type of double layer drywall with an acoustically deadening core as well as adhesives that remain pliable and prevent sound from being transmitted as well as the proper insulation. Notice I put insulation LAST as the effect it has is not as dramatic as the proper construction details,mthe proper choice of drywall, the proper adhesives....

Originally Posted by lenniel

Thanks for that great info. Unfortunately, the house was already framed/studded when we bought it so we're past the stage of making any structural changes, especially to interior/load bearing supports, etc. Therefore, we're stuck with doing what we can prior to drywall and ceiling installation.