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Are the modern insulated glass windows that have replaced storm windows any better. I know with the storm windows there never was any need for replacement or maintenance.
Yes and no.
They both have advantages and disadvantages.
For most people modern insulated glass is probably better. Why? If they are installed correctly, they are likely working as designed.
Yes, a single pane window with a good storm window can perform just about as well as a insulated glass window. However there is a big but......
That window has to be well maintained. The weather stripping, the pockets that hold the counterweights have to be sealed, the glass putty, the glass and the paint have to be in top to good condition. Most windows are not well maintained. And you need a good quality, well maintained storm window over it. The problem is most storm windows are not that great in the quality department, so they don't stop much in the way of drafts. Good quality storm windows are not inexpensive. So if you have to restore a window back into good condition as well, you're in the price range of an all new window, at least the cheap ones. Most people don't want to send their weekend painting, puttying, and weatherstripping old windows and putting up and taking down the storm windows. So its no wonder most people will chose the new window.
But they can be a great window if you are willing to put in the effort or the money to make it happen, they can last the life of the house if maintained. The look of the house is kept too.
Insulated glass don't need storm windows, they tilt in (though you can get kits to make a old window tilt in, few seem to know about them) for easy cleaning. Its easy to wipe off a vinyl frame or the aluminum cladding on a new wood window. People like new things and if you actually do the maintenance on your new windows there isn't that much you have to do.
Though I have never had a seal on an insulated glass window fail (I have well made wood framed windows), it does happen and you really can't fix it yourself. Most new windows are of the cheap vinyl framed variety. They do not last as long as people think they will. Even a maintained vinyl window only has a service life of about 20 years max. Not a very long time (maintained fiberglass and wood framed windows will last decades longer and have fixable parts). Several of my window remodeling buddies say about a third of the windows being removed in the jobs they do now are vinyl ones. They aren't very fixable, you just replace.
It depends on the house, if you restore old windows or replace with insulated glass windows. Most pre-war (WWII) windows have more architectural features, made of old growth wood, or have sizes that aren't available or are very expensive in a new window. Most of those homes should go with the restoring the old, because the cost of restoring is lower then an expensive new custom Marvin window (plus you keep the integrity of the old house). Most post war houses have windows that may not be of great quality and it likely better to go with the new.
Interesting post richb. I'm curious about how to make old windows tilt in? I wouldn't want to take out the weights and chains on our 1911 windows though. I'll keep my old growth character rich 100 yr. old wavy glass windows over replacement windows that I doubt would last 100 years. I found a way to make ours more energy efficient by removing the outside trim and making a cradle of insulation with plastic and fiber glass insulation. Place a small bead of caulk around the opening and place the plastic over the opening leaving a small pouch for the insulation. Staple the plastic in place and place the fiberglass insulation in the pouch leaving room in the cavity for the weights to move freely. Fold the plastic over the insulation and staple it in place. When the trim goes on make sure you caulk around it to seal any air leeks. In our case we had the house stuccoed and that along with the house wrap made it even more air tight. The windows still leak a little but we need new storm windows. Any one have any ideas which storm windows to buy?
There are several good brands. Just google invisible storm windows. Skip over the paid ads.
I looked into theses once before but I don't like the idea of having to drill into the wood work inside. It's also inconvenient having to change the storm out for a screen on the second story. I like the idea of traditional energy efficient storm windows to protect the antique windows in the summer from rain. It's also nice to be able to air out the house from time to time in the winter. It's time for window maintenance again next spring. They are so easy to take out and work on but you definitely need a storm and screen as a back up. Thanks for the advice but I'm really looking for traditional storms that provide a better seal than the ones we have.
are you kidding, we have enough problems with regular double pane getting the freaking condensation in between the glass, never mind having another pane to worry about.
I don't what anyone says, I am from the old school. regular windows with storm windows worked for centuries, just more to wash that's it.
i hate the double pane windows. i have had so much aggravation from the steam in the glass, the bronze fading, the springs popping.
never had this problem with the older windows,
If your double panes are fogging up, were they argon filled? If so, they've leaked and do not have the insulating value they once had when new.
If they're old standard double pane glass with vent holes, not sealed in argon, just dead air space, those do fog up.
I live in an 1840's built farmhouse that will be getting 9 new double hung windows this month. The other 9 are in way better shape and can wait until next year. The ones being replaced have massive wood framed storm windows.
Last winter I used a couple of rolls of duct tape inside the windows to keep the drafts out, even with the storm windows in place. One window in the master bedroom that is on the side of the house where the prevailing wind blows actually had a rubber backed rug nailed over it or the curtains blew in the wind.
I will be happy to see the new windows. Even if they are the cheapies they have to be better than the one's currently on the house. Plus I won't have to worry about getting the storm windows up & down, storing them, etc.
Nothing about this old house is very energy efficient. I am hoping that the windows, plus the insulation that is going in will help keep my electric bill somewhere in the realm of under a whole paycheck...........
I live in an 1840's built farmhouse that will be getting 9 new double hung windows this month. The other 9 are in way better shape and can wait until next year. The ones being replaced have massive wood framed storm windows.
Last winter I used a couple of rolls of duct tape inside the windows to keep the drafts out, even with the storm windows in place. One window in the master bedroom that is on the side of the house where the prevailing wind blows actually had a rubber backed rug nailed over it or the curtains blew in the wind.
I will be happy to see the new windows. Even if they are the cheapies they have to be better than the one's currently on the house. Plus I won't have to worry about getting the storm windows up & down, storing them, etc.
Nothing about this old house is very energy efficient. I am hoping that the windows, plus the insulation that is going in will help keep my electric bill somewhere in the realm of under a whole paycheck...........
What you're doing to try to save $$$$ and energy is absolutely great!
Please let me give you a tip on the installation part that I learned from a journeyman carpenter,
When you have the old windows removed, and have the framing for the new windows installed, get yourself a roll of insulation, R-11 or R-13, and cut strips of it to fit in between the window framing and the structure, you might have to use something thin to pack it into the spaces, like a door shim. Don't pack it too tightly though, just enough to take up those empty spaces. Make sure both inside and outside of the new windows are caulked very well too.
tip: don't forget to use a level when framing the window openings to check for level and plumb, and use wooden shims to align the new windows into the framing.
Good Luck!
I looked into theses once before but I don't like the idea of having to drill into the wood work inside. It's also inconvenient having to change the storm out for a screen on the second story. I like the idea of traditional energy efficient storm windows to protect the antique windows in the summer from rain. It's also nice to be able to air out the house from time to time in the winter. It's time for window maintenance again next spring. They are so easy to take out and work on but you definitely need a storm and screen as a back up. Thanks for the advice but I'm really looking for traditional storms that provide a better seal than the ones we have.
They go inside, so it does not matter what floow it is on. Some of them use a spring compression frame. no drilling, just pop them into place in the fall and pop them out in the summer. Some people use them all year, but we prefer fresh air to ac. You can actually build your own as well. They are not as nifty, but work fine. I am building some now. They have wood frames a tiny bit smaller than the window opening. There is weather stipping foam all the way around the outside so you just push them into place. The only downside compared to the commecial ones is that the wood frames are a bit bigger and more visible (but they can be painted or stained to match) and the foam will have to be replaced every few years.
We do nto really have the means to have screens, but out windows do not open all that wide anyway. They make expandable screens that simply sit underneatht he double hung window. Those work fine for us. When you shut the window, you just stick the screen behind the nearest piece of furniture, but since we have a porch around most of the house, we rarely close the windows.
As far as traditional exterior storms, as far as I know you have to make them or have them custom made. Be certain to put number badges on them and ont he window frames so you get them back in the right place the next year.
I live in an 1840's built farmhouse that will be getting 9 new double hung windows this month. The other 9 are in way better shape and can wait until next year. The ones being replaced have massive wood framed storm windows.
Last winter I used a couple of rolls of duct tape inside the windows to keep the drafts out, even with the storm windows in place. One window in the master bedroom that is on the side of the house where the prevailing wind blows actually had a rubber backed rug nailed over it or the curtains blew in the wind.
I will be happy to see the new windows. Even if they are the cheapies they have to be better than the one's currently on the house. Plus I won't have to worry about getting the storm windows up & down, storing them, etc.
Nothing about this old house is very energy efficient. I am hoping that the windows, plus the insulation that is going in will help keep my electric bill somewhere in the realm of under a whole paycheck...........
BE careful. We had some cheap windows made to match the existing ones when we built a kitchen. They were not supposed to be cheapies, but they were. They leak far more than the existing ones did even before we fixed the existing ones. The cheapies were(are) terrible. I think they left out the weather stripping, or they just built them too sloppily. Our 176 year old windows fith tightly so no weather stripping is needed. The new windows just do not seal. However in a prior house we had some replica windows made and they were perfect. You could not tell them form the original (we even bought some replica wavy glass - which, alas, does have visible patterns in the waviness if it is a big piece of glass) and they sealed beautifully. When I visited our old house, the current owners talked about how much they loved those original old windows. I did nto hve the heart to tell them otherwise. They are happy with their "original" "antuique" windows and never need to know otherwise.
Most of those homes probably have storm windows. If they maintain their windows there is no reason to get double pane. Storm windows are just as effective so why spend the money. Plus the gas does nto leak out of storm windows in a few years and get replaced with condensation or dust.
ain't that the truth.
The only thing I am thinking why people don't like the storm windows is because it is double windows to wash. Personally after the bad experiences I have had with double pane windows, I rather wash the extra window. I hate dirty windows with a passion, I am so anal about that.
Now ( oh joy ) I just noticed the other day on one the lower sashes in my living room it has wetness at the bottom of the glass. Ugh, I just replaced 3 sashes the summer before last and not this sash because it was the only "good" one in the living room ( I have 2 double hung windows) , now this one is starting.....
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I am hoping that the windows, plus the insulation that is going in will help keep my electric bill somewhere in the realm of under a whole paycheck...........
