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Old 12-12-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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Just hoping it doesn't mean that the hut tub motor burnt out, won't know until I can plug it in again.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:10 PM
 
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A poor electrical connection can create heat. And the amperage draw from that poor connection can be lower than the amperage of a breaker. For example a space heater can create a LOT of heat, yet is still drawing less than the amperage of a breaker.

Same with a poor electrical connection.

A poor electrical connection can be a loose wire inside a plug... Say a loose wire inside a plug on an extension cord - you plug in the extension cord, one prong of that cord gets *very* hot and also damages the outlet.

Or an undersized extension cord (wire gauge) can do the same thing.

Or an old worn outlet may not make good contact with the prong of a plug.

Or the wires connecting inside to the electrical outlet can have a loose or poor connection.

Etc.

A breaker trips if too much amperage is used. A GFCI trips if there is a "fault to ground" like if someone was being shocked.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
2,429 posts, read 7,233,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireyourworld View Post
...
Though oddly the screw opposite the black wire, one that has no wire attached, was a bit sooty, though in this environment it could be mildew. That screwed seemed to be touching the edge of the box though, could that have been an issue?
The box is (should be) at ground potential. The screw on the socket quite likely was "hot"... most sockets have two screws for connecting hot (black) leads and two screws for connecting the neutral wires (white). The two hot screws are connected together in the socket. So despite it not having a wire attached to it, that screw was probably hot.

A little bit of misalignment putting the outlet into the box, a little bit of moisture to bridge the gap, even an insect touching both the screw and the box, and... you get an arc. Not enough to trip the breaker, but enough to melt the insulation, blacken the socket, etc.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:05 AM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_J View Post
A poor electrical connection can create heat. And the amperage draw from that poor connection can be lower than the amperage of a breaker. For example a space heater can create a LOT of heat, yet is still drawing less than the amperage of a breaker.

Same with a poor electrical connection.

A poor electrical connection can be a loose wire inside a plug... Say a loose wire inside a plug on an extension cord - you plug in the extension cord, one prong of that cord gets *very* hot and also damages the outlet.

Or an undersized extension cord (wire gauge) can do the same thing.

Or an old worn outlet may not make good contact with the prong of a plug.

Or the wires connecting inside to the electrical outlet can have a loose or poor connection.

Etc.

A breaker trips if too much amperage is used. A GFCI trips if there is a "fault to ground" like if someone was being shocked.
This is my guess and one I've run into a few times... most of the time it was with the push-in style backwired outlets... the connection was ok for light loads and not so good for portable electric heaters... a much higher load near circuit capacity.

Also ran into a problem with sticking breakers before... a very old house.

My electircal guru and even the chief electrical inspector told me it is a good idea to cycle breakers... turn them off and on to ensure they operate freely and smoothly.

Sometime, over times... I've noticed electrical draw increases.

Clean and tight connections made with proper sized copper wire and quality outlets and you should be good to go...
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:43 AM
 
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just a guess, you dont have an old federal panel do you?
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:55 AM
 
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Just to add a bit to the confusion here, it may help to point out how a GFCI plug works. It's really a very simple device--it senses the current going to the appliance through the hot (black) wire, and the current coming back from the appliance to the outlet via the neutral (white) wire. If the GFCI senses an imbalance, it trips. That's the only thing that will cause it to trip.

Can't tell exactly what was going on from the information provided by the OP, but it sounds like the problem was caused by something other than the spa--maybe a circuit overload or a faulty outlet as others have mentioned. IOW, the spa was working correctly as the current flowing to it was the same as the current being returned through the neutral wire. That would explain why the GFCI plug didn't trip--it's not designed to detect problems in the outlet.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:42 PM
 
2,091 posts, read 7,514,109 times
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I think snorpus nailed it. The socket was a bit crooked in the box and the screw was touching the side. There may also have been a bit of bug parts and cobweb in there when i pulled it out but i wasnt really looking for it. I replaced the socket, very carefully, and the cord end, and yay! The hot tub works and so do the christmas lights.

Its an old square d panel, to the person who asked above.

Thanks everyone for your insight in to this issue, first time i ran across it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:01 PM
 
28,113 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Always good to get the follow-up
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA, from Boston
1,514 posts, read 2,775,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
just a guess, you dont have an old federal panel do you?
Impossible! They all caught fire years ago...
Can't recall the code, but spas should be hard wired to a disconnect, with appropriate gauge all the way back to the panel. This doesn't sound like that...
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:26 AM
 
106,561 posts, read 108,713,667 times
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not all. they live on today .. they are sooooo expensive when you need one.
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