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One of my rentals had these Schlage keys that were really weird. Flat key double sided cut and the center had a raised c spine from tip to end. The key guy said this key was made in the 50s. I doubt I'll be able to get it. I ended up having to change the lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you
One of my rentals had these Schlage keys that were really weird. Flat key double sided cut and the center had a raised c spine from tip to end. The key guy said this key was made in the 50s. I doubt I'll be able to get it. I ended up having to change the lock.
Those would be the Schlage A and W profile keys. No biggie. Every locksmith across the US should have these in stock. They were exceptionally common in the 1970s, and were the economy model knob lock from Schlage. The preferable version of the lock is still made, the Schlage A53PD. The difference is the cylinder design and principle. Otherwise, the lock it is placed inside is identical, and leaps and bounds better than today's' residential knobs and levers from Schlage. In fact, the A53WD, which is the topic of this thread, while super easy to pick open, was exceptionally corrosion resistant, and would function well at the shoreline. The security was the weakness, not the functionality.
The fact that there was no deadbolt that could be key matched to the knob, and concerns over security, led to the demise of the A53WD, which was replaced with the far weaker F51N. The latter is a pin tumbler design cylinder, allowing it to be keyed to match their other products. Unfortunately, the mechanical design of the F51N is far inferior to either the A53PD or A53WDof pot metal as opposed to the solid brass machined cylinders Schlage used in even their cheap residential deadbolts until approx 2015. Now they moved to a pot metal design for not only handles, but deadbolts as well.
The Kiosk key machine does not know this, it exists to monetize immediate gratification over long-term satisfaction.
One only need MEASURE a Schlage original key, and a key used by most hardware stores, key kiosks and others. A proper Schlage blank measures .092" Thick. Cheap blanks, sold in bulk at about 1/6 the cost of the precision blanks I have made to this exacting dimension. These economy blanks will fit loosely in the lock, often resulting in clicking. This wears on the lock. This is a case of unacceptable tolerance. This is done to speed up the key blank manufacturing process, and eliminate the need for Quality Control measures. That is how you can get some keys for as little as a buck or two. Also, Kiosks and most hardware stores will have a VERY limited RANGE of capability, will copy a BAD ORIGINAL. Locksmiths routinely measure out poor keys, calculate the correct specifications and produce proper keys. Does the hardware, shoe store and kiosk know this? No, they do not know that. Did you know most hardware stores pay only 9 cents for a key blank for the most common Kwikset or Schlage locks?
Many consider a key is a key is a key. Ever wonder why it is a game of roulette.. some keys might work some might not... but it was so convenient......or was it ? Then, the machine could only recognize SOME of your keys.. The rest it got confused by, and rejected. Not much computer power going on, is there?
For those that think locksmiths are a creature that died off in the 1920s with the buggy-whip maker, visit a locksmith shop. You will find not only THOUSANDS of different keys others can not identify or know to exist, but also door hardware that is actually GOOD. Quality you though was not made any more.
Am I afraid of computers? Hardly. I have had computerized ( CNC Type ) machinery for over 25 years. CNC machines are terrific for doing certain repeatable tasks more accurately than when done manually. But this requires correct input. ( Junk in, junk out ). The knowledge of when to duplicate, when to decode and when the lock is the issue, is not going to be on the Kiosk's radar...even if it HAD radar!
It is very interesting that all the Google REVIEWS for kiosk keys are gone. They used to exist. If the Kiosks do a great job, why are there no public-facing reviews?
Sorry for going on, I am kind of known for that. I guess you can avoid the long winded personality by visiting a lumber yard with a Kiosk, and hope the key fits, if the machine has the blank for it ( I have just under 5000 DIFFERENT blanks )
You are right, the employee is just there to plug n chug.
The employee is not to be the focus of the keys not fitting, it is the system itself.
The old version of the machine has slots.... if keys falls in the KW1 / 66 slot, use blank 66 and associated cassette. Hit the button, hand client the keys and go mix some paint.
What most do not know: The machine is unable to discern between about thirty keys that are distinct but SIMILAR to Kwikset. They are ok with the errors this will cause, relying upon "HERD PROTECTION". Because Kwikset is by far the largest VOLUME seller of economy locks, the likelihood is high that the CORRECT key will be a KW1 / 66.
The machine itself, if maintained; is about as accurate as any machine that preceded it. The inaccuracy will more likely be from the loosely milled blanks. This adds to the tolerance buildup in the lock.
The newer machine, often sitting next to the older Axxess machine, scans the key, and guesses at the key blank. It is always a guess, using HERD PROTECTION once again. They scan is not precise enough to discern a KW1 from a DE7 from an IN3 from a WK2, and so forth.
If you ever had in-home service of a computer, and the problem wound up NOT being the mother-board, you wound up on the wrong side of HERD PROTECTION diagnostics.
There area number of other issues, but I prefer not to give my industry's competition a free consultation to improve their "odds" at making an accurate key.
Some home improvement chain had DIY key making. You just follow the directions on the machine. IF the high school kid can do it, you can too. I do not know whether they still have those. It was a lot cheaper and faster. Worked fine.
Please go to Lowes and use the key machine. If you go to Home Depot, some chick at the customer service desk will ask my husband to stop what he's doing, like juggling 3 other customers, and go make your stupid keys.
Some home improvement chain had DIY key making. You just follow the directions on the machine. IF the high school kid can do it, you can too. I do not know whether they still have those. It was a lot cheaper and faster. Worked fine.
You didn't read the posts from the professional locksmith, directly above yours, did you?
He makes the point, quite well I thought, that a majority of the time the cheapest key making method will work, but there is a large fraction of cases where it will not work. Personally I would prefer, in descending order:
Going to an actual locksmith shop to have keys made
Going to a hardware store and having a clerk who has done it many times make a key
---end of options that I am interested in---
Trying to do it myself on a do it yourself machine of uncertain accuracy, unknown maintenance, unknown calibration, and no training is not on my list. Having a bored 16 year old clerk at Wal Mart make my keys is not on my list either.
That said, when we find ourselves without options, we all do what we have to do, but that doesn't make it a good choice.
Yes, it can be expensive, but it's even more expensive if you don't have a spare key and need one!
I've had to break into a garage because my keys were in my bike bag and I locked the door by accident. That was all the lesson I needed to have spares.
Yes, it can be expensive, but it's even more expensive if you don't have a spare key and need one!
I've had to break into a garage because my keys were in my bike bag and I locked the door by accident. That was all the lesson I needed to have spares.
That's why I never lock the door knob. I only lock the deadbolt, which prevents me from ever locking myself out. But what happens if you lose your keys? I now have a deadbolt with a keypad on it, so I just enter the code to get in. This also allows for temporary codes for guests and contractors. I also have a smartphone app that allows me to open my garage door from anywhere. Great if I or someone else needs to get in the house.
I've been going to the same locksmith for about 20 years... it was family owned and started in the early 1950's. Several months ago, the shop changed hands.
Normally, getting a spare key is a couple of bucks... the local hardware store often runs specials as low as $1 or buy one get one free.
Anyway, I'm going to have to start asking prices in the future.
Had two regular Schlage Residential keys duplicated and was charged $14.46
Asked if there was some mistake and was told they had to raise their prices... also noticed prices are no longer posted as had been the case.
The dollar sure doesn't go far these days.
Not many people would pay nearly that much for duplicate keys. They probably figure they can ambush each person one time, with that surprise charge.
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Schlage key you could not get at Lowes
