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The wife and I would like to buy a house one of these days, she wants something city, and I want something more country, I've been finding these older farm houses in semi-urban areas that come with 1/2 an acre or more, and a nice size garage or barn for less than $100k. These houses are a little older and need some repair, and some upgrading, which shouldn't be a problem I don't mind getting my hands dirty. Do you think this would be a good compromise, would this type of property be a good first house?
I grew up in an old farmhouse and froze my...."tail".......off in winter.
You will really need to do a lot to make them as energy efficient as newer houses.
I grew up in an old farmhouse and froze my...."tail".......off in winter.
You will really need to do a lot to make them as energy efficient as newer houses.
That's tricky for the houses built in the mid 1800s more than houses built closer to the end of the 1800s. The architectural style is designed so the building can breath between the walls. You can't just blow insulation between the walls because it will leave air gaps and the wood will start to rot. There's two options. Either remove the plaster walls, insulate everything so there are no air gaps and install drywall, or simply replace windows and caulk everywhere to eliminate any air getting inside near baseboards, outlets, etc. Of course, insulate the attic in both scenarios.
...would this type of property be a good first house?
NO!
"...don't mind getting my hands dirty". Yeah, dirty is one thing, but are you up to all the possible upgrades, changes, and usual maintenance that comes with "older homes"? Like a new roof, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, siding (asbestos?), termites and their damage? Structural repair? Lead paint?
The list could go on and on, those are just the big one off the top of my head that usually pop-up on "older homes".
Usually the "Best" first house is a house that is 10 or less years old. There should be very little maintenance involved at that point other than exterior paint and landscaping issues. As time goes by more and more "things" will need attention. This is the progressional learning curve. As you attend the issues you gain a greater understanding of what is involved in fixxing or correcting certain issues. Some you maybe able to handle yourself, others may need the attention of professionals. If you have any doubt about any project/repair that needs to be done, don't. THe last thing professionals hate to do is fix other people's F/U's. Or, they charge a monsterous arm and a leg for it.
All the other issues that come with home ownership, only you can answer. Location, location, location; schools, real estate values, comps, travel time for work, etc., etc.
To harry chickpea
I saw that movie some time ago.
Not quite our experience. We did contemplate incorporating the old building into the new but in the end gave up and demolished it.
One tip. I thought I had specified enough electrical outlets but failed to take full account of female ingenuity. One of my basic objects was to always have an electrical outlet accessible for 'vacuum cleaning'. Got foiled big time. My advice, put an outlet behind every door then, unless the lady of the house does not want the door to be opened, no piece of furniture, or whatever, will 'just have to go there' and there will always be an available outlet.
I speak form experience!!
NO!
"...don't mind getting my hands dirty". Yeah, dirty is one thing, but are you up to all the possible upgrades, changes, and usual maintenance that comes with "older homes"? Like a new roof, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, siding (asbestos?), termites and their damage? Structural repair? Lead paint?
The list could go on and on, those are just the big one off the top of my head that usually pop-up on "older homes".
Just because it's an older home doesn't mean it hasn't been updated over the years. I looked at several houses between 60 - 150 years old. Some needed a lot of work like you described, but there were plenty that had updated wiring, windows, heating system etc. The good thing is that stuff is very easy to spot, and should bring the price of the house down considerably.
And you definitely want to get the house inspected by someone who is familiar with older homes.
That's tricky for the houses built in the mid 1800s more than houses built closer to the end of the 1800s. The architectural style is designed so the building can breath between the walls. You can't just blow insulation between the walls because it will leave air gaps and the wood will start to rot. There's two options. Either remove the plaster walls, insulate everything so there are no air gaps and install drywall, or simply replace windows and caulk everywhere to eliminate any air getting inside near baseboards, outlets, etc. Of course, insulate the attic in both scenarios.
I am not following this. Yes you can just blow insulation in between the walls, they do it all the time. There is an entire industry built around blowing insulation into he walls of older houses. In fact, we are having it done as I write this.
Our house was built in 1836, 1850 and 1868. There is no problem with blowing insulation into the walls. Our house was insulated in the 1930s. It may have been done earlier and then replaced in the 1930s. There is no air gap in the insulation and it is unclear why someone would think wood would start to rot as a result of insulating the walls. It did not rot in the 80 or so years since the 1930s insulation was put in. I am still trying to understand why you think there would be air gaps, or how such air gaps would cause rot. There are gaps in our insulation where the insulation settled or in some causes simply fell out (when we moved the house) and we are having it topped off today. The find any pockets where insulation settled or is otherwise missing and fill them. In fact most older homes that are balloon framed are much easier to fill with insulation than modern stick framed houses, but it can be done with either type of construction (part of our house is brace framed, which is the most difficult to insulate, but it can be done and it was).
You have two choices for insulating the house if it does not already have insulation (however it is extremely rare for any house in a cold climate not to have insulation added). You can have cellulose fiber blown in (shredded newspaper mixed with fire retardant); or you can use non-expansive foam. Foam costs more but works better, however with foam you have a possibility of cracking the plaster or having foam ooze out or fill in electrical boxes. You can also have difficult running wire or pipe for later upgrades.
We are using cellulose both because it is cheaper and because our walls are already finished and we do not want to risk cracks. Plus it is a lot easier to find people who know what they are doing when installing cellulose. Foam is newish and not commonly used due ot cost so many installers have little experience with foam.
What they do is cut a small hole at the top and bottom of the wall (in our case from the outside, but you can do it form the inside if you prefer). They stick a hose in the bottom hole and blow in cellulose with a machine that is basically a giant fan. As they move down the air pressure compacts the insulation and it fills every nook and cranny. When they are done, we will go over the house with an infra red camera to make certain they did not miss anything. The price is $2400 to top off the walls around the old part of the house (all of the portions through 1868) which constitutes about 3000 s.f. of living space. The infra red camera inspection costs another $200.
The most effective place to insulate is the attic. Up there it is very easy for you to either rent a machine and blow it in yourself, or just lay down a lot of fiberglass batt, or if you have the money, hire someone to spray ICYNENE foam. However we have great insulation in the attic (ICYNENE) but that is not enough. There are wall pockets with no insulation and some cold comes through. The biggest problem is in the brace framed part of the house where the upper and lower floors meet. It is hard to get insulation in there and the wind seems to come right through and turns the floor upstairs icy cold when it is super windy.
In addition to your insulation, clean up and repair your windows. Then build some interior storm windows from plexiglass (acrylic or lexan. lexan is better but costs a lot). If your storms have a nice tight fit, you will have as good or better insulation than double paned glass new windows. (and not so ugly).
You are not going to seal your house up airtight like a modern house. It will still breathe. but you will eliminate drafts and reduce heating costs.
You may want to start with the infra red camera. If people have been living in your house in the past 50 years, it is unlikely they were living there without insulation. Even if there is no or insufficient insulation, it does not mean you cannot live there. We lived in our house for two years before we discovered one whole wall had almost no insulation in it at all. It is not horrible, it just costs more to heat and as mentioned earlier, most of your heat loss is through the roof, not the walls.
An old farmhouse is fine as a first home, just keep in mind, you are taking on a lifetime project. There will always be things you need to do. It can be fun to do them. The neat thing is that while new houses get less nice every day, your house gets better and better every day (not to mention the charm factor) You want to make certain the roof is in good shape and no windows are leaking water. Water intrusion will destroy a house beyond repair fairly quickly. Anything else can be done over time. Even foundation issues often are not that big a deal. We had a part of a foundation failing on one of our prior homes. It cost $4500 to have it fixed. A lot, but hardly break the bank expensive. (A roof costs a lot more, and paint costs way way more).
Get a book, make some friends and learn to do things yourself. Nothing is very hard. You may make some mistakes and have to correct things, but you will figure it out. For me the only difficult thing is plumbing. Hooking up fixtures is easy, but I do not like sweating copper pipe and I do not have the tool for connecting PEX. The make shark bite connectors that simply push on and are great for small projects, but I would not try to plumb a whole house using them.
As far as growing up in the country as a kid - there are plusses and minuses. You have lots of room to roam, build a fort, ride a bike or horse, play games, explore etc. However you do not usually get to be in sports. When I was a kid there were six others my age within two miles of our house. three were my friends and three were enemies. There was never enough people to play any sports games, so I never tried sports much until Jr. High school, By then I was way behind and no one wanted me on their team. I learned a lot about nature, camping, survival, growing and building things. I was able to ride mike bike for many miles. I could sleep outside in the yard. Safety was never a concern for my parents, unless I fell out of a tree or something. I did not learn street smarts. I was ok socially, but not good in sports. I never really learned I was supposed to stay away from or dislike people who are "different" We did get into some pretty nasty fights with the other three kids, but I suspect that happens in subdivisions too. I did not learn to conform or to appreciate conformity. I did not really know anything about girls until high school (One of my friends was a girl, but she was just like one of the guys, we roughhoused with her just like anyone else.)
To harry chickpea
I saw that movie some time ago.
Not quite our experience. We did contemplate incorporating the old building into the new but in the end gave up and demolished it. Attachment 108991
One tip. I thought I had specified enough electrical outlets but failed to take full account of female ingenuity. One of my basic objects was to always have an electrical outlet accessible for 'vacuum cleaning'. Got foiled big time. My advice, put an outlet behind every door then, unless the lady of the house does not want the door to be opened, no piece of furniture, or whatever, will 'just have to go there' and there will always be an available outlet.
I speak form experience!!
Second the outlets thing. I put in nearly twice as many as code requires, and still we have places where we wished we had an outlet. You rarely end up using the house exactly the way you plan to when you work on it.
I am not following this. Yes you can just blow insulation in between the walls, they do it all the time. There is an entire industry built around blowing insulation into he walls of older houses. In fact, we are having it done as I write this.
I looked it up. I'm talking about a timber frame construction. Your house probably has a balloon frame construction, or at least you better hope it does. Timber frame construction needs ventilation between the wall cavity. Insulation is extremely specific for this type of old construction. You can't just blow insulation. Balloon construction became predominantly popular in the mid-1800s, with some balloon built earlier and some timber built later, so it's important to know what type of construction an 1800s house is if you're installing insulation between the walls.
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