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Just had to add this because I ran into it today and it is so relevant.
February 2012 homeowners had new home custom painted...the master bedroom ceiling is seriously humungous and very high and the builder was just back there to repair some stress cracks. He no longer employs the painters that did the original job and I have been doing a lot of work for him since last March. So he asks me to go over and paint over the ceiling repairs. The original paint can was still there but had nothing in it, so he picked up a new gallon. Same product, etc (Sherwin Williams CHB.) Same store, actually. All that information is on the product label so I could tell exactly.
It was a blue-gray; not white or off white. I told him it may not match perfectly and indeed it did not. Close but no cigar....I did the best I could feathering it out but if the homeowners are not happy with it then guess what, I am going back to paint the entire humungous ceiling. The bedroom is about the size of a football field.
In that case, nobody is at fault really; the original painters left and properly labeled the paint they used and stress cracks on big-assed high ceilings happen.
Different batch. Makes no difference until you are trying to touch up one with another. All paint stores have disclaimers somewhere on their product labels that protects them from this scenario and SW would probably comp the paint for good PR but paint is cheap and labor is expensive and they won't comp labor.
Thanks for posting this. Yeah, so I quizzed the painter on exactly which rooms he did in what order, where he ran out of paint (no he did not mix together the 2 batches) and where he did touch ups with the new batch.
He offered to reroll the office which is patchy as hell, but will only do touch ups for everything else. If SW gives us another batch of paint for free and it doesn't match at touch ups, I will be stuck to repaint all the living room walls myself. Ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroptera
Just had to add this because I ran into it today and it is so relevant.
February 2012 homeowners had new home custom painted...the master bedroom ceiling is seriously humungous and very high and the builder was just back there to repair some stress cracks. He no longer employs the painters that did the original job and I have been doing a lot of work for him since last March. So he asks me to go over and paint over the ceiling repairs. The original paint can was still there but had nothing in it, so he picked up a new gallon. Same product, etc (Sherwin Williams CHB.) Same store, actually. All that information is on the product label so I could tell exactly.
It was a blue-gray; not white or off white. I told him it may not match perfectly and indeed it did not. Close but no cigar....I did the best I could feathering it out but if the homeowners are not happy with it then guess what, I am going back to paint the entire humungous ceiling. The bedroom is about the size of a football field.
In that case, nobody is at fault really; the original painters left and properly labeled the paint they used and stress cracks on big-assed high ceilings happen.
Different batch. Makes no difference until you are trying to touch up one with another. All paint stores have disclaimers somewhere on their product labels that protects them from this scenario and SW would probably comp the paint for good PR but paint is cheap and labor is expensive and they won't comp labor.
It's my opinion that the majority of the responsibility falls on the homeowner. It was the homeowner who purchased the paint quantity and color, so they must understand that their failure to properly have adequate supplies on hand means they are at fault. Had the painter supplied the paint and ran out, got more and it didn’t match, I would hold the painter responsible for delivering the proper finished product. Once the customer accepts the role of that contractor's purchasing agent, they accept the screw-ups that comes from their inexperience. We can argue all day long about what a painter should and shouldn’t have done, but in the end, the painter didn’t buy too little or the wrong color. The fault of the painter was accepting the customer provided paint.
It's my opinion that the majority of the responsibility falls on the homeowner. It was the homeowner who purchased the paint quantity and color, so they must understand that their failure to properly have adequate supplies on hand means they are at fault. Had the painter supplied the paint and ran out, got more and it didn’t match, I would hold the painter responsible for delivering the proper finished product. Once the customer accepts the role of that contractor's purchasing agent, they accept the screw-ups that comes from their inexperience. We can argue all day long about what a painter should and shouldn’t have done, but in the end, the painter didn’t buy too little or the wrong color. The fault of the painter was accepting the customer provided paint.
As a painting contractor since 1979, I disagree with this.
Any professional painter will at the very least correctly dictate the amount of paint required, or if he or she is going to need more paint, take adequate steps. As I said in previous posts.
People hire my company for my expertise and professionalism and know-how....not simply the mechanics of putting paint on the wall.
Fault is with the painter. One hundred percent. That is assuming the OP hired someone who held themselves out as a professional painter and charged accordingly. Unfortunately it seems like she hired wannabee not-professionals and this is what you get in this scenario: "painters" who act professional until the **** hits the fan and who don't have much expertise or experience.
If she hired wannabee painters, which is what it sounds like...then, yeah. They are in over their heads, did not think the job through and unwilling to make the job right.
You get what you pay for and I am not blaming the OP here but the "painters" she hired sound like well-meaning, inexperienced yahoo wannabee painters. Any painter by definition who allows the homeowner to choose the product and purchase the materials is a yahoo and most certainly not a professional by my definition. Most property owners are ignorant (in the dictionary sense, not literally) about products and procedures and they hire me to do the job right with the best materials, not to do the job half assed with whatever materials the homeowner has decided on.
Interior Superpaint, by the way, is complete and utter crap as far as washability and touching up. That's what you get for relying on online reviews rather than real life experience. It will burnish the first time you try wiping it down. I stopped using it a decade ago because of this; I had my SW sales guy come out to a couple of my jobs. I get Duration for less than Superpaint on my discount and do not charge my customers more for it. Plus I will do almost anything within reason to leave a client happy.
Bottom line: Any company can screw up. And will. The definition of a reputable company is one who will do whatever it takes to make the job right....
It's my opinion that the majority of the responsibility falls on the homeowner. It was the homeowner who purchased the paint quantity and color, so they must understand that their failure to properly have adequate supplies on hand means they are at fault. Had the painter supplied the paint and ran out, got more and it didn’t match, I would hold the painter responsible for delivering the proper finished product. Once the customer accepts the role of that contractor's purchasing agent, they accept the screw-ups that comes from their inexperience. We can argue all day long about what a painter should and shouldn’t have done, but in the end, the painter didn’t buy too little or the wrong color. The fault of the painter was accepting the customer provided paint.
I agree but with one caveat. I've never even heard of a professional paint company or reputable general contractor using the customer's paint unless that was the customer's request. They get a huge discount on the product they buy, then they charge the customer cost plus a fee for doing the purchase. That's part of the way they get paid and you still usually end up paying less than you'd spend buying the paint retail. So to start with, you've experienced the opposite of getting ripped off. By having you supply the paint, they've ripped themselves off. My suspicion is these people didn't have a professional discount set-up with a supplier.
I have a friend who's a contractor (he buys my paint for me in exchange for me doing some favors for him). For his projects he only uses Sherwin-Williams (and his supplier carries many brands). He thinks highly of the product. I know a lot of contractors are using their Super Paint these days. I haven't used it myself (I've always primed separately with Killz), so I'll reserve comment. But in any case, the paint itself shouldn't be the problem, it should have covered well, if enough had been purchased. I will comment later on the color issue.
I do my own interior painting (multiple different houses I've flipped and the one I'm living in currently) and I've used a lot of different products. First, no matter how accurate you are in calculating how much paint you should need, different kinds of plaster finishes take paint differently, the age of drywall could make a difference, and whether or not you are painting over other colors makes a difference. You mention in your first post that you hired painters to paint your living room with a five-gallon can. If I had one room and any size can, I would paint one wall at a time if there was any chance I would run out. Because I would automatically assume that a can purchased later might look different. At least if you have one whole wall painted using the second run, light in the room could account for a wall seeming different than the others so it wouldn't even be a problem.
Perhaps your painters cut in the whole room by hand first and then sprayed. I can't imagine any other reason they would have to "patch" in with the new paint. But in any case, this is a botched job from many angles. One, you are a novice at purchasing paint. Two, your painters may have painted before but they didn't practice the usual "professional" standards ... and you didn't question that. Three, the biggest issue is paint was purchased (and presumably mixed) at two different facilities.
You might have some recourse for a discount or something if you bought the paint at the same location, but I honestly don't think you have a case given that you didn't. Unless Super Paint comes with some written guarantee or you made an agreement with the store, paint is basically caveat emptor. I have had many cans of paint with differences even purchased from the same store and mixed with the same equipment, so it wouldn't even occur to me that I should expect every can to match seamlessly.
I agree but with one caveat. I've never even heard of a professional paint company or reputable general contractor using the customer's paint unless that was the customer's request. They get a huge discount on the product they buy, then they charge the customer cost plus a fee for doing the purchase. That's part of the way they get paid and you still usually end up paying less than you'd spend buying the paint retail. So to start with, you've experienced the opposite of getting ripped off. By having you supply the paint, they've ripped themselves off. My suspicion is these people didn't have a professional discount set-up with a supplier.
I have a friend who's a contractor (he buys my paint for me in exchange for me doing some favors for him). For his projects he only uses Sherwin-Williams (and his supplier carries many brands). He thinks highly of the product. I know a lot of contractors are using their Super Paint these days. I haven't used it myself (I've always primed separately with Killz), so I'll reserve comment. But in any case, the paint itself shouldn't be the problem, it should have covered well, if enough had been purchased. I will comment later on the color issue.
I do my own interior painting (multiple different houses I've flipped and the one I'm living in currently) and I've used a lot of different products. First, no matter how accurate you are in calculating how much paint you should need, different kinds of plaster finishes take paint differently, the age of drywall could make a difference, and whether or not you are painting over other colors makes a difference. You mention in your first post that you hired painters to paint your living room with a five-gallon can. If I had one room and any size can, I would paint one wall at a time if there was any chance I would run out. Because I would automatically assume that a can purchased later might look different. At least if you have one whole wall painted using the second run, light in the room could account for a wall seeming different than the others so it wouldn't even be a problem.
Perhaps your painters cut in the whole room by hand first and then sprayed. I can't imagine any other reason they would have to "patch" in with the new paint. But in any case, this is a botched job from many angles. One, you are a novice at purchasing paint. Two, your painters may have painted before but they practicing the usual "professional" standards ... and you didn't object. Three, the biggest issue is paint was purchased (and presumably mixed) at two different facilities.
You might have some recourse for a discount or something if you bought the paint at the same location, but I honestly don't think you have a case given that you didn't. Unless Super Paint comes with some written guarantee or you made an agreement with the store, paint is basically caveat emptor. I have had many cans of paint with differences even purchased from the same store and mixed with the same equipment, so it wouldn't even occur to me that I should expect every can to match seamlessly.
Why thank you. It would be right back at ya, except apparently I already did recently. But here's one more thing.
In her first post, the OP said she was having her "living room" painted. But then later, she mentions questioning "which rooms were done in which order" and saying the painter offered to re-roll "the office." So apparently this job even increased while it was going on. And given a five gallon can didn't finish the living room, how many other rooms were done with the second gallon? I'm totally confused now.
Why thank you. It would be right back at ya, except apparently I already did recently. But here's one more thing.
In her first post, the OP said she was having her "living room" painted. But then later, she mentions questioning "which rooms were done in which order" and saying the painter offered to re-roll "the office." So apparently this job even increased while it was going on. And given a five gallon can didn't finish the living room, how many other rooms were done with the second gallon? I'm totally confused now.
I know, right....I can tell you it is not unusual for clients to add on to the original job and that is cool. Actually,
usually appreciated.
Again I am coming down on the side of the painters not really being professionals here...they should have ordered the extra paint as soon as they knew there were add-ons. Or if it was very late in the game, witheld the original paint for touch-ups and made sure they had enough extra to do the additional work.
Or something.
But the bottom line: it hopefully should not be that difficult for two minds to reasonably meet and come to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. The OP's painters are willing to do at least some work to make her happy and that is an excellent start.
Thanks for the input Jukesgrrl and chiroptera. Let me elaborate on the paint job (I didn't want to type out a whole essay in my original post). The paint job was the entire interior of the house except for two bathrooms. There are 3 bedrooms, the kitchen, living room and hallways. Bedroom A and kitchen were two other colors; everything else was to be painted the color in question (Diverse Beige). So the original 5 gallon bucket was for 2 bedrooms, living room and hallways. Also, let me clarify that the painter REQUESTED that we buy a specific amount of paint... and I did. That's not my fault. I was simply following his orders. I really had no choice but to get the second batch of paint at a different location. I purposely went back to the same store I bought the first batch. It was the store employee that said that we HAD to get it at the other location.
I have learned a lot from this experience. The saying "You get what you pay for" is entirely true. I hired someone who's expertise does not lie in painting. Sure, they can paint a house but really anyone can. Know what I mean? He was a recommendation so that's why I did it. Nice guy but next time, I will make the investment and hire a painting company.
It's funny. I was explaining the whole situation to my mother. She is no paint expert by any means, but she's painted her entire house several times. She said that the painter should have let me know from the start that the walls were "sucking up" the paint and that I'd need a primer. It makes sense to me now in hindsight. The reason why he requested that I get a second 5 gallon bucket was because he hadn't anticipated that the walls would need so many coats. The walls were originally painted an off white using flat paint.
Okay, so Sherwin Williams has agreed to give me more paint to correct the patchy and discolored walls. And they will give me some touch up paint for the ceilings. Awesome customer service!
But now the painter has requested that I buy a new roller and drop cloths (we will have new floors down) so he can finish touch ups and repaint one of the rooms. What?! Does this sound completely off-base to anyone else?
I'm at the point where I would prefer to do the work myself.
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Close but no cigar....I did the best I could feathering it out but if the homeowners are not happy with it then guess what, I am going back to paint the entire humungous ceiling. The bedroom is about the size of a football field.
