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Hello all, the inevitable happened - my hot water tank developed a leak.
So now I'm looking for a replacement. I was wondering if there were any handymen who would be so kind to provide insight, advice, and recommendations.
My hot water tank is a PowerFlex power vented model that hooks into some 3" PVC piping to exhaust the gases through a pipe that goes ~25-30 ft. vertically through the roof to a J-hook to prevent moisture from the outside coming in. It has a 3/4" gas input line and the machine room (underneath my main stairwell) has two steel 5" pipes for outside cool and cold air for feeding the gas flames. Add in the usual expansion absorber and add in a hydronic system that uses a pump to pull from the hot water to the house where the hot water goes through a Rehau manifold, up through insulated PEX-A, and into baseboard heating units that has a fan blowing over the pipe with the water running through it. Then it recycles back into the heater.
I live in the Pacific NW, so I don't need to use the heat much beyond the winter months when we get wet, damp, cool, and miserable for 9 months of the year, followed by gloriously mild and wonderful weather for the summer.
My contractor recommends HTP Phoenix system because it has nearly the same hookups, even though it's slightly smaller at 55 gal, though it is specifically meant for both home heating and hot water tap use. I'm inclined to go with his recommendation and was wondering if folks have heard anything about them. They're relatively new, but advertise a really high efficiency rating.
But .. there's always a but ...
The 3" exhaust piping I was telling you about the contractor doesn't like. He wants to drop in a 2" PVC solid core pipe into the center of the 3" cellular core (foam core?) PVC that I currently have. He claims that the type of piping that I have isn't up to code and never should have been used. All told it will likely cost thousands to repair or replace and dropping in a tube inside the current one will ensure that any leaks
I'm a little scared because I've seen horror stories about improperly installed PVC and I'm wondering if mine is that way too ... when we first moved in, the exhaust pipe was totally detached from the exhaust pipe going to the roof and was venting directly into the boiler room. Wasn't an issue because of the outside air mixing it and allowing a sort of escape path, and the boiler room is in an unoccupied basement area. But I fixed that no problem with the correct piping going TO the exhaust pipe, but now I'm not so sure that the rest of the pipe behind the wall is OK. We're gonna snake in a light and camera to see if there's any leaks, but if worse comes to worse and there is a breach, is putting a pipe inside a pipe really advisable? Or should I just get rid of it all and replace the pipe with stainless steel (or similar advised metal per manufacturer's spec)?
Finally ... anyone have tankless systems running their hydronic system AND their tap/shower/appliances?
After doing more of my own research I found the following:
1) Tankless systems work great when you don't have it constantly running. If you have a unit that is running constantly, it will reduce the warranty to 3 years. If I'm gonna pump that much money into a heater, I'd want it to last longer than ~5 years. Thus a hybrid system or two separate ones - one for the hydronic, one for the hot water, would work. I found a unit from HPT, called the Phoenix Light, and it seems really high tech, and is meant for light commercial use, with a nice warranty. I think I'll go for it.
2) The foam core PVC that I have in my walls I have to bite the bullet and just remove it. We found a jog in the attic that is basically 90 deg, and was trapping moisture. Augh! Makes me shiver, and wonder about the rest of the house! Is this POS gonna fall over my head?!? Be calm ... they cut corners where they could, and knew that the owners would be footing the bill.
That said, most heating appliances don't recommend foam (aka cellular) core PVC unless it is cool air mixing / venting. Solid core PVC and steel are basically standard. Further, steel has a heating / combustibles requirement that, looking at the layout of my house, I doubt we could snake a system through and make it safe. So I'm going to bite the bullet and just replace the whole exhaust flue. Repairing drywall is easy. I'm just hoping that I don't find more stuff hiding there ....
3) While putting in a tube inside a tube would be OK, it's just weird and would raise questions when we went to sell. Just saving myself a minor future headache by replacing the whole thing. I can't snake a new one in anyway due to aforementioned 90 deg jog (that isn't up to code, but that will be fixed when I get at it).
I'm guessing that in ~3-5 years we will be seeing an avalanche of lawsuits over shoddy homes as the new homes built in the housing bubble craze start falling apart from cheapskates, mexican labor, and unscrupulous executives of said builders.
Hello all, the inevitable happened - my hot water tank developed a leak.
So now I'm looking for a replacement. I was wondering if there were any handymen who would be so kind to provide insight, advice, and recommendations.
My hot water tank is a PowerFlex power vented model that hooks into some 3" PVC piping to exhaust the gases through a pipe that goes ~25-30 ft. vertically through the roof to a J-hook to prevent moisture from the outside coming in. It has a 3/4" gas input line and the machine room (underneath my main stairwell) has two steel 5" pipes for outside cool and cold air for feeding the gas flames. Add in the usual expansion absorber and add in a hydronic system that uses a pump to pull from the hot water to the house where the hot water goes through a Rehau manifold, up through insulated PEX-A, and into baseboard heating units that has a fan blowing over the pipe with the water running through it. Then it recycles back into the heater.
I live in the Pacific NW, so I don't need to use the heat much beyond the winter months when we get wet, damp, cool, and miserable for 9 months of the year, followed by gloriously mild and wonderful weather for the summer.
My contractor recommends HTP Phoenix system because it has nearly the same hookups, even though it's slightly smaller at 55 gal, though it is specifically meant for both home heating and hot water tap use. I'm inclined to go with his recommendation and was wondering if folks have heard anything about them. They're relatively new, but advertise a really high efficiency rating.
But .. there's always a but ...
The 3" exhaust piping I was telling you about the contractor doesn't like. He wants to drop in a 2" PVC solid core pipe into the center of the 3" cellular core (foam core?) PVC that I currently have. He claims that the type of piping that I have isn't up to code and never should have been used. All told it will likely cost thousands to repair or replace and dropping in a tube inside the current one will ensure that any leaks
I'm a little scared because I've seen horror stories about improperly installed PVC and I'm wondering if mine is that way too ... when we first moved in, the exhaust pipe was totally detached from the exhaust pipe going to the roof and was venting directly into the boiler room. Wasn't an issue because of the outside air mixing it and allowing a sort of escape path, and the boiler room is in an unoccupied basement area. But I fixed that no problem with the correct piping going TO the exhaust pipe, but now I'm not so sure that the rest of the pipe behind the wall is OK. We're gonna snake in a light and camera to see if there's any leaks, but if worse comes to worse and there is a breach, is putting a pipe inside a pipe really advisable? Or should I just get rid of it all and replace the pipe with stainless steel (or similar advised metal per manufacturer's spec)?
Finally ... anyone have tankless systems running their hydronic system AND their tap/shower/appliances?
Yes, I do. Both baseboards and domestic hot water via a tankless system. Fuel is natural gas.
It replaced old furnace and hot water tank.
How many people in your family and your approximate square footage?
Yes, I do. Both baseboards and domestic hot water via a tankless system. Fuel is natural gas.
It replaced old furnace and hot water tank.
How many people in your family and your approximate square footage?
~1500 sq. ft. and two people. Eventually, three or four ... hoping to start a family in this house.
But in reality I'm just going to get another hot water tank. I haven't seen a tankless system that has a warranty beyond 3 years when used for heating and hot water.
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... hoping to start a family in this house.
