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As other said, almost all hvac units have the same parts - they all get their parts from the same wholesalers. What sets one apart from the other, is the warranty. Having said that, you need a good installer. period.
Unfortunately that is bit of a myth also.........looking at most reviews everyone was happy they were covered under the warranty for parts......it was the labor costs that has everyone in an uproar.
I would be perfectly happy in my environment to get ten years out of a unit.....I can live with that. I cannot live with problems 4 years in. Everything I am seeing is about the amount of leakage related problems being a big culprit in these newer 410A units.
It was one of the most Informative articles I found and 410A is 410A whether it is in Canada or the US, correct? I could not find anything else legitimate about higher operating pressures of the 410A.
Yes, that's true. But the units are designed to handle the higher operating pressures. All that stuff has been worked out for the most part on the manufacturing side, but with that said manufacturing processes are not 100% perfect. If an R22 system is not working properly it could potentially hit somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 psi on the high side before tripping compressor overload safety. On good well built R410a models the units are equipped with high and low pressure controls that prevent the compressor running under such dire conditions. The more havoc you expose the compressor to, the more likely it will fail. But these kinds of "accessories" cost money. The manufacturer doesn't give this stuff away.
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Originally Posted by JBtwinz
Obviously there seems to be a problem with a lot of these units and the breakdown of the equipment so soon, and the majority of the those troubles divided between instillation issues and leakage, with leakage a leading cause.............and I am finding it is because of the higher pressures.
Not any more so than R22. It's only that someone has something different to compare to or something to blame something on (blame the higher pressure of R410a). If an R22 system is not leak free it will leak just like R410a. If install and design is not done properly neither type of unit will work properly. Anyone can make excuses, the professional offers solutions. Many who enter this profession thinks it's money, money, money all the time. Those who think that way go broke due to warranty issues. The company you choose is who you are tied to for the life of your equipment. If you aren't going to use them for service why would you put your trust in them to install it?
Company jumping will do nothing more than cost you more money in the long run.
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Originally Posted by JBtwinz
You are definitely right on the numbers of models..............I am just having a hard time grasping that as a consumer I am finding that I have to either put my blind trust in a dealer or become a rocket scientist to understand the AC units out there to make a definitive choice.
The more you spend the better the unit, but it's up to you to do the research (by model #) because someone could hood-wink you and you'd likely never know the difference. Use a local licensed HVAC contractor first and foremost. If you can find a "working" licensed contractor and not a technician based company there can be big differences in quality for the simple reason of experience alone. Provided the contractor is the one doing all of the work.
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Originally Posted by JBtwinz
Comparing AC units to the auto industry..........I don't see the comparison. At least with autos I have a much better opportunity learning about the models through word of mouth and research. I am finding out that it is one big black hole when it comes to the air conditioning industry.
Yes, it is a poor comparison and I was trying to highlight that in a round about way by comparing the two. To give you a better understanding why you will never find any clear cut answer regarding one ac brand over another. They all break. No two HVAC designs are alike, installation practices from one company to another and so on.
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Originally Posted by JBtwinz
There are going to be a lot of consumers in the US pretty upset this summer when they learn that their R22 units are obsolete and the cost to add a few pounds is pretty close to a weeks wage for those working for minimum wage.
I was never one to quibble about price as long as I was paying for quality, but I sure as heck don't want my buying experience to be equal to betting on the roulette wheel in Vegas.........luck of the draw!!!
Yes, no different than just about any year in recent memory and slated to only get worse in as little as a year. In fact it could get so bad that there will be no R22 Freon available at any price. In 2012 every company was capped at 2 jugs of R22 per week. If you're not repairing refrigerant leaks under those conditions you are going to be sweating, plain and simple.
Yes, I understand. Your best bet is to use a "working" licensed HVAC contractor. Installation is about caring that it's done right. Someone working for a pay check as a technician or installer is hit or miss.
Unfortunately that is bit of a myth also.........looking at most reviews everyone was happy they were covered under the warranty for parts......it was the labor costs that has everyone in an uproar.
I would be perfectly happy in my environment to get ten years out of a unit.....I can live with that. I cannot live with problems 4 years in. Everything I am seeing is about the amount of leakage related problems being a big culprit in these newer 410A units.
This cause of Freon leaks is true to a degree, but Trane isn't any more or less susceptible to refrigerant leaks than any other manufacturer. The article is misleading in that they give you the impression that ONLY Trane has aluminum coils. Which is undeniably FALSE. Nearly all manufacturers use aluminum coils to one degree or another and it wasn't for the reasons listed within that blog... it was for cost cutting and lighter weight. Aluminum is much, much cheaper than copper.
While aluminum is less susceptible to refrigerant leaks, this does not mean in any fashion that you will never develop a leak with an aluminum coil. Vibration or evaporator coil that is allowed to freeze into a cube can cause leaks. Vibration is mostly an installation variable and in some cases a manufacturing issue... put two pieces of metal together and shake it.
Never place your trust completely in just a brand name. They all break.
If one manufacturer can save real $$$ in equipment materials used there is nothing that would prevent another manufacturer from doing the same... do not kid yourself.
As you have recommended I am going to stick with the company who does the install as far as maintenance. I have a duplex and both have Lennox and both with the exception of having the duct work and coils cleaned have had NO mechanical issues since instillation in October 2000 and were able to bring the temperature down to meat packing lows (women) without any noticeable increased energy costs.
My only problem now is picking a unit and at this point.......... today I am considering both Bryant and Trane with my leaning towards Bryant. Because of my past needs being met with lower efficiency units (2000 technology) I am going to go no high than 14 SEER.
The second unit is getting close so hopefully I will a few summer months to judge the new unit before I commit to the same unit for the other units replacement.
Thank you for taking the time to go into the details that you have
HA, HA, HA.... He's in Canada! Yeah he should know a lot about air conditioning. How long is his summer?
3 weeks? A month? LOL.
GOOD ONE.
Wanker response. Einstein was a patent clerk. What did he know about the space time continuum? Of course we all know that no one from the U.S. has ever moved to Canada. Clearly we need to find a tech from Ethiopia to tell us how to install air conditioners.
My only problem now is picking a unit and at this point.......... today I am considering both Bryant and Trane with my leaning towards Bryant. Because of my past needs being met with lower efficiency units (2000 technology) I am going to go no high than 14 SEER.
The second unit is getting close so hopefully I will a few summer months to judge the new unit before I commit to the same unit for the other units replacement.
Thank you for taking the time to go into the details that you have
You might as well go with a 13 SEER model then because the manufacturer's aren't really making true 14 SEER right now. These units are mostly pared down 16 SEER models. Means you are paying more for not really much better equipment in my opinion. Energy consumption wise from a 13 to 14 seer would be squat from the size you are looking at. It might be as low as $1 a month difference depending on your utility rate and usage patterns / climate.
A good 16 SEER unit are those with 2 speed compressors. These are more mid-tier systems and require complete system change out to work properly. You won't find that in one masquerading as a 14 SEER. The Trane models aren't as clear in this regard as the Bryant models. But you can get a good idea of this in how they specify models efficiency ratings by saying "up to 16 SEER" or whatever. "Up to" disclaimer means depends on sizing and matching among other factors.
This will change again down south as mandatory minimum SEER rating is going to 14 SEER Jan. 1, 2015 for the south unless EPA changes their minds. Northern climate will still be able to get 13 supposedly but only if manufacturer's keep making them??? who knows? Supposedly current 13 SEER units will be redesigned to 14 SEER model. This is typically what happens when efficiency ratings increases are imposed.
Wanker response. Einstein was a patent clerk. What did he know about the space time continuum? Of course we all know that no one from the U.S. has ever moved to Canada. Clearly we need to find a tech from Ethiopia to tell us how to install air conditioners.
Sure, who is more likely to have more experience? Facts are facts, just because you don't like them means what exactly?
If I'm running Air Conditioning calls in November still, what do you think Canada is doing? That is a fact that can not be refuted. Just because you don't like it changes nothing.
Simply put, your logic is faulty. There is a level of expertise required to do many tasks well. Once a person has that level of expertise, further experience does little or nothing to increase knowledge. What can increase knowledge is getting away from the day to day experience of a job and investigating the core concepts, which it is pretty obvious the writer of the linked article had done.
Your response to the link was uncalled for and showed a lack of respect for knowledge based upon your personal bias. If you had refuted a point of fact within the article, and backed that up with personal experience or cites from more knowledgeable sources, that would have been perfectly legitimate. Dismissing knowledge based upon the location of the source and perceived work level is more a trait I would expect out of a low level grunt worker. Example:
"Well that fancy pants Hercules fellow doesn't know anything about cleaning manure. He isn't even a farmer. I've had my job here at Augian Stables for thirty years, and I have to say that even with my years of experience shoveling shoot, it is an impossible task."
Simply put, your logic is faulty. There is a level of expertise required to do many tasks well. Once a person has that level of expertise, further experience does little or nothing to increase knowledge. What can increase knowledge is getting away from the day to day experience of a job and investigating the core concepts, which it is pretty obvious the writer of the linked article had done.
Simply put everyone is entitled to "their own opinion". Mine is what it is because of my own experiences.
You are entitled to yours, I will not beg you to change your mind. I feel if you are old enough to own a home and take on all the responsibilities of maintaining one, it is up to you to decide for yourself who or where the information you use to make a decision from.
It is not my responsibility nor desire to refute the opinion of someone else in a climate completely opposite from the one in which I live and service.
You wouldn't be the first one to disagree with me... and that's fine. Choose what you will, but choose carefully. Our paths might cross one day and you won't like what I have to say then either.
Thank you, I do tend to choose carefully. The only way I could know in advance that I wouldn't like what you would have to say is if you have such an intention. That would be entirely upon you, but if you were to state fact or give information, I can't foresee how that would happen.
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) without any noticeable increased energy costs.
