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Old 05-02-2008, 11:55 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,812 times
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if you are experiencing problems with your air ducts, it is a must that you hire a professional to perform Moderator cut: url removed for you. the task is simple yet must be given full attention at all times. this is also for the reason that very single detail must be handled with proper care and attention.

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Old 05-02-2008, 05:21 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 25,672,075 times
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Default O' God they are at it again.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by jong0726 View Post
if you are experiencing problems with your air ducts, it is a must that you hire a professional to perform advanced air duct cleaning for you. the task is simple yet must be given full attention at all times. this is also for the reason that very single detail must be handled with proper care and attention.
First they Must clean their ducts because they did not use common sense and prevent them from getting all that dirt in the first place.

Second, they Must use some highly trained Professional with something bordering on Black Magic to effect some mystery cure.

Third, they Must pay big money to ensure it will be done right and justify the experience.

Sometimes when I feel a bit constipated I just want to DO IT. Yep, just pick up that phone and make the call. Hire some Professional to take a daily dump for me. Something I should be able to do, something I should know how to do. Something I should never have to strain to do, just because I forgot to eat that extra apple. Or was it the prune juice.

Get it done, wiser and more Professional. Get it done at the cutting edge with maybe a laser spot for targetting the pin point accuracy of landing exactly.

After all that function should be far beyond my own poor ability to add or detract. I need a Professional on the spot (or is it the pot), one certified in the business. Hopefully with the proper government credentials, bonded, insured, inured and with proper signs of authority. Well that might be a uniform and badge initially until part of it might have to be dropped.

Better yet if they drive a large truck, have lots of equipment and a glossy video explaining Alpha to Zed exactly how it will be done. A government license of some sort might also be nice to ensure it is being done to Code.

Some things a normal person should never be trusted to do themselves.

Last edited by Cosmic; 05-02-2008 at 05:35 PM..
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:33 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,319,301 times
Reputation: 4798


Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? | Publications | Indoor Air | Air | US EPA

"
Does duct cleaning prevent health problems?
The bottom line is: no one knows. There are examples of ducts that have become badly contaminated with a variety of materials that may pose risks to your health. The duct system can serve as a means to distribute these contaminants throughout a home. In these cases, duct cleaning may make sense. However, a light amount of household dust in your air ducts is normal. Duct cleaning is not considered to be a necessary part of yearly maintenance of your heating and cooling system, which consists of regular cleaning of drain pans and heating and cooling coils, regular filter changes and yearly inspections of heating equipment. Research continues in an effort to evaluate the potential benefits of air duct cleaning.
In the meantime...
Educate yourself about duct cleaning by contacting some or all of the sources of information listed at the end of this publication and asking questions of potential service providers."

"
Consumer Checklist


Learn as much as possible about air duct cleaning before you decide to have your ducts cleaned by reading this guidance and contacting the sources of information provided.
Consider other possible sources of indoor air pollution first if you suspect an indoor air quality problem exists in your home.
Have your air ducts cleaned if they are visibly contaminated with substantial mold growth, pests or vermin, or are clogged with substantial deposits of dust or debris.
Ask the service provider to show you any mold or other biological contamination they say exists. Get laboratory confirmation of mold growth or decide to rely on your own judgment and common sense in evaluating apparent mold growth.
Get estimates from at least three service providers.
Check references.
Ask the service provider whether he/she holds any relevant state licenses. As of 1996, the following states require air duct cleaners to hold special licenses: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Michigan and Texas. Other states may also require licenses.
Insist that the service provider give you knowledgeable and complete answers to your questions.
Find out whether your ducts are made of sheet metal, flex duct, or constructed of fiber glass duct board or lined with fiber glass since the methods of cleaning vary depending on duct type. Remember, a combination of these elements may be present.
Permit the application of biocides in your ducts only if necessary to control mold growth and only after assuring yourself that the product will be applied strictly according to label directions. As a precaution, you and your pets should leave the premises during application.
Do not permit the use of sealants except under unusual circumstances where other alternatives are not feasible.
Make sure the service provider follows the National Air Duct Cleaning Association's (NADCA) standards and, if the ducts are constructed of flex duct, duct board, or lined with fiber glass, the guidelines of the North American Insulation Manufacturers Association (NAIMA).
Commit to a preventive maintenance program of yearly inspections of your heating and cooling system, regular filter changes, and steps to prevent moisture contamination."


NADCA - National Air Duct Cleaners Association

Click Here For Free Download Pre checklist (http://www.nadca.com/download/precleaning.htm - broken link)

Click Here For Free Download (http://www.nadca.com/download/postcleaning.htm - broken link) Post checklist
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: a primitive state
11,363 posts, read 24,315,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic View Post
First they Must clean their ducts because they did not use common sense and prevent them from getting all that dirt in the first place.

Second, they Must use some highly trained Professional with something bordering on Black Magic to effect some mystery cure.

Third, they Must pay big money to ensure it will be done right and justify the experience. A government license of some sort might also be nice to ensure it is being done to Code.

Some things a normal person should never be trusted to do themselves.
My little old house already has dirty ducts. Wasn't my doing.

Seems the government brochure said most of that junk will simply stay in place unless stirred up.

In a few years I'll need a new unit, would it be a bad idea to have the ducts cleaned then?
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:44 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,319,301 times
Reputation: 4798
If it's flex duct have them replace it. Hard duct have them clean it if you feel like it and have them pressure test it for leaks. They should also verify that the duct work can handle the airflow from a new system before installing it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf How to select a contractor.pdf (309.7 KB, 847 views)
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 4,642,448 times
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Does anybody ever just open a few windows and air the place out? Seems like that is a lot easier way to get clean air in your house...
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:49 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 25,672,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellie View Post
My little old house already has dirty ducts. Wasn't my doing.

Seems the government brochure said most of that junk will simply stay in place unless stirred up.

In a few years I'll need a new unit, would it be a bad idea to have the ducts cleaned then?
Duh, Ellie the Great Raging Duct Cleaning Debate.

To me is totally dumb to design a system where the return duct can get contaminated in the first place. They claim the filters are to protect the equipment. Duh, the return ducts are part of the equipment. Real genius. I hate forced hot air for a lot of reasons.

It probably is a case by case basis of what is in there. Maybe a breeding ground for lots of things. Could be an ideal fire hazard. I would try to determine exactly what my own case was, how bad is it.

I cleaned mine, had to disassemble the suckers. Return ducts are formed using the floor joist voids, has sheet metal over the bottom to form a monster duct. You probably cannot clean them by a vacuum alone, sure couldn't on mine. I will eventually build in a prefilter to filter all the air going into those return ducts. I just am not going thru that cleaning thing on any sort of a regular basis.

A lot of it is your typical CYA. The situation was allowed to happen by design. The damage is done. Then the yammering Experts have to find a way to make it sound like they still know what they are talking about. Duh, crap in ducts is never good. End of discussion.

Lot of it will be determined by your case, what is the ducts made of, how big are they, how easy to get at, what is actually in there, etc, etc. Your typical bad and worser choices in most cases. We should really trust the Government on this one!!!!!! Right.

Just seems to me to be another case of where idiots are in charge of design. As good olde Murphy is so fond of saying; "If it can go wrong, it will".
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:30 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,319,301 times
Reputation: 4798
You can have a mechanical engineer design your system with a PhD in Thermodynamics....but most HO want to get out of it as cheap as possible though when doing HVAC.

(See the upgrade threads on here all kinds of wants like granite, marble, stainless steel, extravagant baths and kitchens...... never one mention of anything like HVAC systems even though they are typically 50-70% of the power bill.)

Get a 5 inch media filter installed designed for the pressure drop..... problem solved for the most part......but that cost money that the average person doesn't want to spend money on.

MERV Explanation

"The most efficient filters have MERV ratings of 13 to 16 and will stop particles as small as 0.3 microns. These filters are used in hospitals and other super clean environments."

Particle Sizes

Do your research before you buy then you won't have the problem of experts saying anything after the fact. All the more reason to seal the house as tight as possible and mechanically control filtered conditioned fresh air into the home. Also get a blower door test done to verify leak rates and have the duct's sealed if outside the conditioned space.....

BUT BE PREPARED TO FORK OVER $$$$ You get what you pay for and not just with HVAC....with life.


"Stack effect. Rising warm air induces a pressure difference, or "stack effect," that causes exfiltration through the ceiling and infiltration at (or below) ground level. The stack effect depends on both the outside temperature and the height of the building. A colder outside temperature will cause a stronger stack effect. Thus, given two identically tall buildings, the one located in a cold climate will have more stack-induced infiltration. A taller building will also have a larger stack effect. Even though outside temperature and building height affect average infiltration rates, neither is measured by the pressure test. During the summer, stack effects disappear because the inside air is usually cooler (especially when the air conditioner is operating). Wind-induced pressure therefore becomes the dominant infiltration path."

Windiness and wind shielding. Wind is usually the major driving force in infiltration, so it is only reasonable to expect higher infiltration rates in windy areas. Thus, given two identical buildings, the one located in a windy location will have more wind-induced infiltration. Nevertheless, a correlation such as ACH50/20 does not include any adjustment for windiness at the house's location.Trees, shrubs, neighboring houses, and other materials also shield a house from the wind's full force. Since a brisk wind can easily develop 10 Pascals on a windward wall, the extent of shielding can significantly influence total infiltration. A pressurization test does not directly measure the extent of shielding (although a house with good shielding may yield more accurate measurements since it is less affected by wind).

Type of leaks. The leakage behavior of a hole in the building envelope varies with the shape of the hole. A long thin crack, for example, responds less to variations in air pressure than a round hole does. The pressure/air change curve (determined with a calibrated blower door) often gives clues to the types of leaks in a house."

Welcome To Home Energy Magazine Online




The point is clean rooms are very expensive to create and maintain....but you can sure have one if you want and have the money.

Last edited by BigJon3475; 05-04-2008 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Miller Place NY
1,051 posts, read 2,967,211 times
Reputation: 119
We had a puff back, and it took two complete "cleanings" to get it right.

Unfortunately, the air ducts were cleaned as part of the second "attempt".

The MORON workers not only broke a beam in the attic that went through the ceiling, but LONG AFTER the alleged "cleaning", we found when we contracted, in association with our oil delivery company, that....

1) ALL of the ducts were NOT attached to the "high hats" that are part of the vents to ALL of the rooms of our house

2) In their stupid effort to clean, they stripped off about 10feet in length of protective, insulated duct covering OF THE MAIN AIR DUCT FOR THE ENTIRE HOUSE,

and 3) COMPLETELY misdirected the air into those dislodged vents.

Our New Air Guy, did an EXCELLENT JOB, and even told me we could put on the "missing" duct covering ourselves...it would be too expensive for him to do it !

I found you have to be very LUCKY to get ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING.

AND...even though you don't know WHAT you are doing about "this and that", the people that you hire...99% OF THE TIME, don't know either. It's all about attitude and bluff.

YOU have to be like you got your business knowledge from Murder Incorporated, and handle ALL vendors like they are out to steal from you...it just comes down to being "how much" they are going to steal and screw up the job.

YOU HAVE TO BE ALL OVER EVERYONE and just go with your instincts, and with LUCK !

It's a jaded attitude, but you have to remember...IT'S YOUR HOUSE !
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:32 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,998 times
Reputation: 10
Smile Duct Cleaning For House

White Fuel has come up with new ideas of how to make a proper use of Duct Cleaning. I've have been using their services since 2005 and I am quite happy
with what ever they have provided me. There used to be a lot of dirt under my carpets, Under the closet, dust mites use to roam inside my house and infact every where in my house. I boarded my pets to my friend’s house just to see if they were the problem but the main was the dust. Now all my problems are solved
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