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Old 01-12-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,778,724 times
Reputation: 39453

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There are a lot of things to look for:

1. Electrical. If you have a modern panel with circuit breakers, it was updated fairly recently. A 50 amp panel is pretty old, a 200 amp panel is very new. In between amperage is inbetween in age. Your old wiring will probably be knob & tube. You will see two seperate wires on ceramic insulators. If you have wire that is coated in yellow or white vinyl and all the wires are in one bundle, that is romex and it is fairly new. Knob & tube wiring does not have to be replaced unless there is something wrong with it. Have it inspected, or learn to evaluate it yourself. Wiring is not that expensive, but repairing the damge to the walls and floors is very expensive. A good electrician will do wiring with a minimal amount of damage to walls and cielings and none to the floors. A bad electrician will take a chan saw to the walls.

2. Plumbing. Learn the difference between steel and copper pipe (go look at them at Home Depot). If you have steel pipe, you will almost definitely need to re-plumb. If you have copper or plastic pipes, you should be fine. The sewer pipe is the larger pipe, usually 3" to 4". It will be made of cast iron or plastic. Plastic is new. Cast iron could be new or old. Cast iron is better for noise issues, but does nto last as long, only about 50 - 80 years usually. With cast iron, the verticle drops are almost never rotted out. If your cast iron plumbing is bad, see if you can just replace the horozontal runs with plastic and tie into the cast iron for vertical drops. This will save a ton of money and reduce noice. Plastic is very noisey on vertical drops. You cna insulate it, but that does nto help all that much. If you have to re-plumb, I highly recommend using PEX. If your plumber says that you should or must use copper, fnid another plumber. PEX can be threaded through the walls like wire and minimizes the damage to your house. Plus it lasts forever. Old plumbing fixtures are just fine and usually prettier than modern. You may have to replace faucets and toilet guts, but the tubs, basins and stools (toilets) should all be fine as they are (unless they were "updated" in the 1970s and they are all avacado green).

3. Structure. Structurally, most old houses are stronger than new houses. The wood was better and balloon framing allows a more flexible and overall stronger structure. The problem with balloon framing is the lack of firestops. That means that fire can travel inside your walls from one floor to the next in seconds. You can destroy your house putting in firestops. If you do this, you may be required to bring the whole house up to code, which essentially means tearing it down. I just used insulation with a lot of fire retardant materials in the walls pllus we have lots of smoke detectors.

Rafters, beams etc, should not need to be touched. As indicated the wood is stronger than modern wood. There is no reason to mess with them unless there is severe rot or termite damge or billy bob "upgrades". In which case, do nto buy the house.
Rotted sill plates are quite common. Just get a quote to rpelace them. It is usually not that big a deal.
Foundation issues are not as big a deal as you might think. It depends on the cause. Many are very easy to correct. Many perceieved foundation problems are not a problem at all and need nothing. Minor differential settlement can result in somewhat uneven floors. THe best thing to do with that is to enjoy it. It is part of the historic ccharacter of your house. It is not a problem, just aestetics (if you want perfect floors, buy a new house - they will be perfect for a few years anyway).

4. Insulation. You can and probably will need to replace or supplement the existing insulation. paper or foam insulation cna be blown into the walls from inside or outside with minimal damage. Just be sure that they use non-expansive foam, or you will blow out your walls. In the attic, you cna easily ass fiberglass, paper insulation. We chose to have ICYNENE foam installed. It is terrific, but very expensive. It also is difficult to get inspectors to understand ICYNENE. It works differently. You spray it on the underside of your roof sheeting and you do not want the attic vented. ICYNENE can only be installed by professionals. Make them sign an agreement to get the insulation approved, inspected and signed off. That way you avoid having to fight withthe inspector who has never seen it before.


5. PLaster. PLaster walls are monumentally stronger than drywall. They also have superioir sound qualities. There will always be some cracks and water damage. Cracks as big as your finger are usually no big deal. Cracks bigger than your head can be a problem. Cracked plaster is easy to repair. Failed plaster can be difficult to repair. However it is always better to repair plaster than to replace it with drywall when it is at all practical. Good plasterers are very hard to find. Most are very old. I tracked down four different guys only to find out that each one of them is dead. I finally got a guy from Mexico that I knew who does plaster. They are out there, but can be hard to find. One thing with plaster, is that hanging things on it is not practical. You need picture rail. Picture rail is a wonderful way to hang things anyway. You can get terrific hangers at Classic Accents.

If you have a lot of crackng or very large cracks, have someone look at it to make sure that there is no structural problem.

6. Roof. There is almost no chance that you hav ethe original roof. A roof will need replacing every 10-40 years. Some go longer. LIke any house, the roof will eventually need to be replaced. Figure on $4500 - $8000 for a typical tear off and resheet for normal sized houses (2500 - 5000 s.f.). Tile roofs last longer, but are more expensive to repair or replace. I have never seen a tile roof that had ot be completely replaced, but I am sure it happens, especially if there is severe termite damage in the rafters.

7. Kitchens: Most people want to "update" an old house kitchen. If it was previously updated, and has no historic charm whatsoever, you will need to do so. "Updating" a historic kitchen is foolish imo. You can just tweak things a bit to make them more practical. Howevr ripping out a charming country kitchen to put in modern counters, cabinets and appliances will leave you with a kitchen that looks like it does not belong in the house and detracts fromt he overall charm and character of the house. Besides, your expensive "updated" kitchen will be "outdated" in only a few years. You may have to find a corner or closet or something to stick in a dishwahser and a modern sink that can handle a garbage disposal where they are not too visible, but everything else can be used as is, or done so as to maintain the caharm of your existing home. Old house kitchens are small and cramped. Live with it. That is how things were. Older gas stoves/ovens were as good or better than modern gas stoves (except yu need to replace the insulation). There are some really nice reproduction stove/ovens available, but they are ridiculously expensive and the HEartland ones are not that great of quality. THe old farm sinks work just fine. Old fridges that work are hard to find, but lots of nice reproductions are available, or you can disguise a modern fridge as a cabinet.

8. Masonry. Brick often needs to be repointed. IF you have this done, or do it, make sure that they use high lime mortar. Todays mortars are too strong and will cause older brick to crack. SOmetimes you cannot repoint the brick but must rebuild the item completely. This is not as expensive as you may thing. We had a fireplace that we had to have every brick numbered, removed and rebuilt just as it was. It cost $1200.

9. Windows. Old windows often need quite a bit of work to seal properly and operate properly. Once you take one apart and put it back together, you will understand them and be able to do one at a time. Or you can pay someone, but make sure that they know what they are doing. If the windows leak a lot, there is something wrong with them, get them repaired. People did not enjoy freezing drafts 100 years ago any more than they do now. Old windows were nto made to leak (at lest not a lot). If you live in a cold place, you will need storm windows to make the old windows equal modern double pane windows. You can use "seal & peel" caulk to reduce penetration in the winter until you get all the windows properly fitted and sealed and storm windows in place.

Marvin makes a very nice double hung replacement window called the Marvin Ultimate somethingortheother window. They match many historic double hung windows. Other types of windows may have to be custom made if they are replaced. Just do one at a time. Be certain to find a very good reputable company with good references (we did not and our new windows are garbage and need to be replaced).

If the windows were replaced with vinyl, move on to another house, unless the price is really cheap and you have some extra money to rpelace all the windows.

#. Siding/Paint. If the house has been stuccoed over or sided, you may be able to remove the stucco or siding and repair the original cedar without too much cost. If it is exposed it may need rpair and repainting. This can be quite expensive. One thing I would look for in buying an older house is siding and paint in very good shape. To give you an example, stripping, caulking, priming and painting our siding will cost us $25,000. This was a price from a good friend who is an execellent painter. Other quotes were much higher (except the powerwash and spray folk, but they do more harm than good.).


Overkill updating:
I saw one charming old house where they gutted the house, thinking that they were improving things they laid out an "open floor plan" put in large closets, wider stairs, got rid of the expensive and difficult to maintain five panel wood doors and replaced them with hollow core. THey removed all fo the plaster and repalced it with drywall, replaced all the windows with vinyl. Changed the pitch of the roof to accomodate higher cielings in the second floor bedrooms. Put in a "modern" kitchen. Then they put aluminum siding replaced the front door, oured concrete in the driveway. They called it their "historic home" but there was absolutely nothing left historic about it. By the time they were done, you could not tell the thing from a subdivision house, except that it looked out of place in the neighborhood and it was a bit more unbalanced than most modern designs.


Things that you should run from include the followings:

1. Extensive termite damage. Small amounts of termite damage is common and not too hard to repair. Do not just accept a "rip out and replace" suggestion from a contractor. Even a completely compromised rafter can be sandwitched between two long boards lag bolted together without any loss of structual integrity. However substantial damage, especially to the peirs and posts or floor joists generally makes a good reason to move on to another house.

2. Foundation issues that cannot be easily repaired. Most can, but if the issue involves recompacting soils, or completely replacing the drainage system, it will get very pricy and damage the house a lot.

3. Billy Bob additions, "upgrades" and repairs. This can be very very expensive to correct. Sometimes the damage is uncorrectable.

4. "Updating" It can be very difficult to reverse a lot of typical "updating" Salvage yellow pine molding is very expensive (up to $16 per foot). Appropriate doors are getting harder and harder to find and many salvage idiots forget to get the door casing with the door. Trying to match a door casing is impractical due to costs and the fact that it will never actually match. Generally flooring disasters are not too hard to correct. If they just put some modern garbage over the existing hardwood, you can simply remove it repair the hardwood sand and recoat. If the hardwood is gone or ruined, it is not terirbly hard to find flooring salvaged from a like aged house. Do nto pay much for salvaged flooring. You will have to spend many long hours removing the wax and dirt build up from the edjes so that the joints will fit back together. Once that is done, installing it is a simple task.

"Updated" kitchens and bathrooms pretty much ruin a historic house. I would suggest skip it and find one that has not been butchered. The same ius true when the windows have bene replaced with modern garbage. Replacing all of the windows with approriate single pane wood windows cna cost a fortune.

Be patient. You may look at and reject a dozen houses before you find a suitable home. You will find it evnetually. You will be glad you did when you watch your neighbors struggle to repair or "un-update" their homes.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed. I wrote bits at different times and I am not going to go back and proof read it. However it should give you some ideas of what to look for, and what needs to be doen to correct typical problems.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,492 posts, read 26,588,779 times
Reputation: 8971
If you are buying an old home today, make sure you will want it for at least a decade.

Selling it in the current economy requires:

A. a 'mint' kitchen

B. newer hardwood floors

C. A two car garage

D. Fully finished basement

E. manicured gardens

F. An excellent school district

G. Close to mass transit/hospital and/or schools

H. Updated plumbing which can cost between 10-50k. If you need a 'septic system'' replaced, this will cost upwards of 30k.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,492 posts, read 26,588,779 times
Reputation: 8971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
One word on home inspections. If your source of water will be a well, have a driller look at it. Also, talk to the county heath department. I answer about 10 calls a year with, "we just bought this house and...." One lady did not have a well, the home inspector told her she had a "good well", it was the septic tank. She had an illegal sand point. It was an $8000 lesson.
Repped.

Some septic tanks in rural areas require major overhauls. My ex SIL had to pay 35k.

Anyone buying an old home needs more than an 'inspector' for 300.00.
You need a structural engineer, plumbing expert, and you also want to be VERY aware of where your water is coming from. Artesian wells sound so romantic until you have the water analyzed by a chemist/the water utility co.

In the current market I would be extremely vigilant about older homes, unless you are a multi-millionaire who can afford endless repairs and upgrades.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:59 PM
 
Location: UK
44 posts, read 83,294 times
Reputation: 46
Buying an old home should not be too big a problem, as if you take care of basic plumbing and electrical woes, you shouldn't really face any other problem. Make sure you inspect your home for leakages and breaks in advance, so that you do not face major problems later. If there are air leakages you can go for spray foam insulation. By careful inspection and amendments, you can easily make this investment a profitable one.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:00 AM
 
1 posts, read 4,019 times
Reputation: 10
Looking at a 200 year old home today.... great advice...thanks, Ray
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