Electrical Work proposal

[btuhack]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

In general you are correct. But I have run a piece of Romex attached a breaker in an empty slot, and sent it to a receptacle in my basement. It didn't take a genius.

Now who's being insulting?

It never changes...you sort of people whine and complain about how a contractor's license paves the yellow brick road to the land of milk and honey but for whatever reason, you never act upon it. Here's your opportunity, start your own friggin contracting business and join us while we spend 6 months a year kicking back in Maui, lighting cigars with $100 bills.

Let's say the project price is indeed too high. Did you ever stop to consider that the guy doesn't really want your business...that you're a PITA so he jacked the price and left the scope of work open ended just to chase you away? It's a pretty easy way to discourage further contact while gracefully leaving the customer with the perception that they have control over the transaction.

[eddie1278]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

In general you are correct. But I have run a piece of Romex attached a breaker in an empty slot, and sent it to a receptacle in my basement. It didn't take a genius.

I think the breaker was $4, the wire was $6 and 15 Amp GFCI Outlet was $14 plus a dollar or two for a box.

My brother seemed to have the same problem with the receptacle in his bathroom which should be off the circuit with the other 8 receptacles and 6 overhead lights. Of course, it's not like my problem where I just need to go 5 yards in a basement with exposed rafters. But that should not be new to a professional.

Instead, I see a rather large proposal to replace a panel, add three new 20A circuits, and split two other attic receptacles into their own 15A circuit. And in short do everything but put the bathroom receptacle on it's own circuit.



Well the majority of regular people told me that I should get a second estimate from a different professional.

No it doesn't take a genius it takes an electrician. Where did you learn how to do the job? most likely from watching an electrician do it. Or if your friend told you how and he learned it from an electrician. Somewhere down the line an electrician was there to spread the knowledge.

Congratulations you did a rudimentary task now only 7,999 hours to go to finish up your 8,000 hour apprenticeship program that is required to get a journeyman license. This stuff is so easy they only require you to go 4 years 8,000 hours of apprenticeship training.

I said it before and i'll say it again. There is easy common tasks in everyones job that most people can do but doesn't mean you are qualified or know what you are doing. I can take my own temperature and even check my own blood pressure does that qualify me as being an RN? Maybe i should complain about my bill from a doctor and say why should i pay that "it doesn't take a genius to take my temperature"...

You would be surprised the simplest things that DIYers do are what i fix most of the time.

Go over to electriciantalk.com it's a forum for only electricians but show them the quote you got and ask them. I guarantee you get prices double what you have been quoted.

Also whenever dealing with plaster the price goes way up. When cutting in boxes into plaster it takes skill because the stuff crumbles like a coffee cake. A diyer will try to cut in a box for a switch and have a huge chunk of the wall fall out. Electricians cut into plaster all the time they know the tricks and techniques to prevent that from happening.

And by law we are required to have a EPA certification when disturbing a certain amount of plaster. It requires a whole bunch of extra steps and expensive HEPA vacuums and masks and whole lot of preperation to put plastic up. If we don't do that we risk a fine of up to $37,000

[eddie1278]

And one other thing to add...

Fishing walls in these old homes to run new circuits can be an extreme pain in the arse. Lots of these homes have balloon construction but they also nail in horizontal fire blocking in the stud bay. So fishing wire up or down multiple floors isn't always easy and i have a full arsenal of tools. Jack chain with a weight to drop down the stud bay, flexible firberglass fish sticks, nylon and metal fish tapes and even a simple rope with a weight on it. You can have all the tools and still get hung up on fireblock in the wall. We have long flex bits to drill down but they don't always work.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by eddie1278

And one other thing to add...

Fishing walls in these old homes to run new circuits can be an extreme pain in the arse. Lots of these homes have balloon construction but they also nail in horizontal fire blocking in the stud bay. So fishing wire up or down multiple floors isn't always easy and i have a full arsenal of tools. Jack chain with a weight to drop down the stud bay, flexible firberglass fish sticks, nylon and metal fish tapes and even a simple rope with a weight on it. You can have all the tools and still get hung up on fireblock in the wall. We have long flex bits to drill down but they don't always work.

...I agree that folks that have invested in the training / tools to do this kind of job the RIGHT WAY are worth hiring. I also agree that when the quote is written in a way that acknowledges what is going to be done and what problems MIGHT be encountered it is a BETTER quote than one that is too vague. Maybe the person that wrote the original quote does have the same tools / skills, but given what is written it does not read the that way. I see nothing that says "fish wire to second floor bath to address overloading issue, subject to additional charges if fire-blocking or other unforeseeable issues take more X hrs of labor". THAT is the kind of detail that I have seen on proposals for older homes and it keeps everybody appraised of the legitimate extra costs that sometimes need to be considered...

[PDD]

One more post from a former electrical contractor. I have been out of the business for more than 15 years and even with 40 years experience there is no way I can tell you if the price is high or not.
Another poster seems to have the handle on today's prices and requirements for upgrades and as others have suggested you might do well with another estimate.

Now if you need any tips on how to bend and install 4" galvanized conduit I'm your man.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by btuhack

Now who's being insulting?

It never changes...you sort of people whine and complain about how a contractor's license paves the yellow brick road to the land of milk and honey but for whatever reason, you never act upon it. Here's your opportunity, start your own friggin contracting business and join us while we spend 6 months a year kicking back in Maui, lighting cigars with $100 bills.

I was actually trying not to be insulting. In general I think you are correct, that most observers underestimate how difficult contracting can be. I have tried many a job that seemed simple in concept, and after 8 hours I may have finished it, but I was tired and bloody.

I was just saying that wiring a single outlet on a single circuit is not complicated, although I admit that that I have never tried to fish wire through several floors of an 80 year old home. On the other hand, this house is not a mansion, and there are plenty of wires already attached to the exterior brick. Nobody would get upset if the wire went up to the attic, and out a hole and down the outside of the building and back into the basement to the panel.

But it seemed to me that the proposal blew up the problem so that it became a $3000 job. All without addressing the core problem. I would never try to change a panel, as I think that is not a job for amateurs.

Here is the contractor's proposal for the bathroom: Replace the existing white GFI protected receptacle with a new white GFI protected receptacle.

I don't think my expectations are "random". I think women today expect to be able to plug in a curling iron in the bathroom and not have to worry about the kids playing computer games or someone downstairs watching TV or even running a vacuum cleaner.

You said "you sort of people" in your comment. What sort of person do you think I am?

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by btuhack

Let's say the project price is indeed too high. Did you ever stop to consider that the guy doesn't really want your business...that you're a PITA so he jacked the price and left the scope of work open ended just to chase you away? It's a pretty easy way to discourage further contact while gracefully leaving the customer with the perception that they have control over the transaction.

Honestly, that was my first thought. Contractor didn't want the job, so he jacked the price up so that the owner would look elsewhere.



I've been out of the trade for some time now, but I can remember a few houses where the panel layout, or wiring was so messed up I really didn't want to hack into it at all. Replacing a panel seems easy...but not when you are looking at a spaghetti mess with doubled up wires on breakers and wiring cut way too short to extend into a new panel. Not fun at all. Those jobs were priced higher just due to PITA factor.


Nowadays, I just work on my own house. I need to upgrade the 100A service to a 200A service at some point and it's the above scenario. Too many wires, too short, doubled up breakers, and a mix of romex dating back to the 60's to the 2000's. Huge PITA and I really don't want to do the job, but it's my house and needs to be done. I'll need to run some new wires, and the path to where I need to go won't be easy. I'll need to break into walls, and then patch when done. Only upside is I just need to pay for materials since my dad and I are electricians, and to be honest a lot of the materials are left-overs from previous jobs.

Right now i'm still tracing out wires to find out what goes where.