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In the 20+ years I've been an electrician most homes that have 200 amp services do not need it. Most loads in a home are not continuous loads. The power company knows this too that's why the wire size they use is much smaller. For example in PA and NJ a house with a 200 amp service will use 4/0 AL but the service drop from the poco to the house is only a #2 AL. The NEC has their own codes on sizing service conductors and the POCO has their own code for sizing service drops. The power company has plenty of data of power usage and they size wire based on that. The only benefit of a 200 amp panel is more spaces.
The apartment i live in now has 3 apartments on a 200 amp service and again that is perfectly fine same with the last place i lived 3 apartments on a 200 amp service.
What about my needing to upgrade to a newer box simply becasue these older 'pushmatic' breakers are outdated and replacement parts are supposedly hard to come by? Keep in mind we are not interested at all in upgrading from our current 100 amp and in fact use less electricity now being appliances, lights etc are consuming less than ever.
What about my needing to upgrade to a newer box simply becasue these older 'pushmatic' breakers are outdated and replacement parts are supposedly hard to come by? Keep in mind we are not interested at all in upgrading from our current 100 amp and in fact use less electricity now being appliances, lights etc are consuming less than ever.
Lots of times you can change the " guts" (buss bars and in turn upgrade to newer style Square D or GE breakers) without replacing the actual enclosure.
That will drop your costs quite a bit. You'll still only have a 100 amp service. The reason I say upgrade is because there is minimal cost difference if you're doing a complete change out upgrade . It's not cost effective to change a 100 amp with another 100 amp. If you sell that's a actual upgrade you can add in as value
Lots of times you can change the " guts" (buss bars and in turn upgrade to newer style Square D or GE breakers) without replacing the actual enclosure.
That will drop your costs quite a bit. You'll still only have a 100 amp service. The reason I say upgrade is because there is minimal cost difference if you're doing a complete change out upgrade . It's not cost effective to change a 100 amp with another 100 amp. If you sell that's a actual upgrade you can add in as value
Yes the cost difference is minimal and it's the same work for a 100 or 200 amp service change but the OP just wants the panel changed. No need to have a 200 amp service upgrade on a house that doesn't need it.
Doing a service change vs a simple panel swap is pretty big cost difference. For me to just to swap that 100 amp with a new 100 it would be around $1,000. To do a service upgrade from 100 to 200amp which obviously means changing the service entrance cable outside then you need a 200 amp meter can will cost around $2,000.
Here is a discussion concerning Pushmatic breakers and panels. Although it is from 2009, it brings out some interesting points. Basically one point brought out is, if the panel is not damaged or defective and the only reason it is being recommended for replacement is that breakers are getting "hard to come by", leave it in and just add a subpanel to put on any circuits that you feel need arc fault protection.
You can probably find a location that still has the breakers and purchase a backup supply of replacements for a lot less than the cost of a panel replacement.
However, if you still feel you want to replace the existing panel, by all means, it's your house, so replace it, but you will need to get cost estimates from electricians in your area.
Yes the cost difference is minimal and it's the same work for a 100 or 200 amp service change but the OP just wants the panel changed. No need to have a 200 amp service upgrade on a house that doesn't need it.
Doing a service change vs a simple panel swap is pretty big cost difference. For me to just to swap that 100 amp with a new 100 it would be around $1,000. To do a service upgrade from 100 to 200amp which obviously means changing the service entrance cable outside then you need a 200 amp meter can will cost around $2,000.
And if you ever decide to do a remodel or add a room or decide to do some electrical add on now you're stuck because you need to do a upgrade to 200 amp. People are short sighted when it comes to stuff like that. Sure you pay a bit more now but in the long run you'll get your money's worth when/if you upgrade or sell. When you sell listing a panel upgrade from 100 to 200 amp is a great selling point and one less thing the buyer is going to hit you on. When I bought my recent house I immediately came back with 2k (of 3500) as a electrical panel needing to be upgraded. I'll eventually have it done and I guarantee you that I will use that as a sale point when/if I sell
I would love to have you come out and do a panel swap from 100 to 200 amp for 2k. Because I would save about 1k from the quotes I got do far. Reason I'm not doing it is because I'm already working 45-50 hours a week and dint have the time. I asked a estimator at work the cost of doing a panel swap runs about $2500. He said that 3k is average. Some guys charge 35-4500.
What about my needing to upgrade to a newer box simply becasue these older 'pushmatic' breakers are outdated and replacement parts are supposedly hard to come by? Keep in mind we are not interested at all in upgrading from our current 100 amp and in fact use less electricity now being appliances, lights etc are consuming less than ever.
Those bulldog brand pushmatic panels are tough. The breakers are also "bolt on" which are secured to the buss bars with screws that makes a much better and secure connection vs modern panels. Don't worry though the modern panels are safe just a bolt on breaker is much better. If you were worried you could have a commercial bolt on panel installed but seriously that is not necessary. Just making a point that back then they built things tough made in the USA.
The only issue you need to look for is corrosion on the buss bars. I believe they used aluminum buss bars but could be copper too it's been awhile since i replaced one. I have one in my shed.
If you do get the panel changed get a Cutler Hammer/Eaton CH style, or Square D Q/O series, or Siemens brand. All have copper buss bars and better connections for the breakers. The square d homeline and cutler hammer br series is the bottom end and use aluminum bussing.
The work we're scheduled for now is to upgrade the panel with newer type breakers for 100 amp and the panel will be 'expandable' so when we eventually sell the house the new owner can easily add up to 150 or 200 amps. They're also going to put in a new meter outside + piping. Estimate is $2000.
And if you ever decide to do a remodel or add a room or decide to do some electrical add on now you're stuck because you need to do a upgrade to 200 amp. People are short sighted when it comes to stuff like that. Sure you pay a bit more now but in the long run you'll get your money's worth when/if you upgrade or sell. When you sell listing a panel upgrade from 100 to 200 amp is a great selling point and one less thing the buyer is going to hit you on. When I bought my recent house I immediately came back with 2k (of 3500) as a electrical panel needing to be upgraded. I'll eventually have it done and I guarantee you that I will use that as a sale point when/if I sell I would love to have you come out and do a panel swap from 100 to 200 amp for 2k. Because I would save about 1k from the quotes I got do far. Reason I'm not doing it is because I'm already working 45-50 hours a week and dint have the time. I asked a estimator at work the cost of doing a panel swap runs about $2500. He said that 3k is average. Some guys charge 35-4500.
You are confusing panel swaps with service upgrades. Also here most services are done in se cable. If it has to be done in pipe with copper conductors and a roof mast the price goes up. A simple back to back service change in se cable is around $2,000.
Back to the original topic though. Like i said in my experience most existing homes with 200 amp services don't even use half that. They won't even see 60 amps pulled on that service at any given time.
I can go and put a meter on the service where i live now with the 3 apartments on a 200 amp service and i bet it's not over 40 amps most of the day.
The 200 amp panel sales gimmick is like the undercoating for cars lol
The work we're scheduled for now is to upgrade the panel with newer type breakers for 100 amp and the panel will be 'expandable' so when we eventually sell the house the new owner can easily add up to 150 or 200 amps. They're also going to put in a new meter outside + piping. Estimate is $2000.
Ok so now you are getting a service upgrade not a simple panel change. If they are doing all that why not just put the 200 amp panel in now? That way nothing has to be done in the future? 90% of the work is on the outside that they are doing now. So basically they have the service conductors sized for 200 amps for the future and a 200 amp meter base but not putting in a 200 amp panel?
I paid almost 2k to have that done in western NC a few years ago. You will need a permit, inspections and a licensed electrician.
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