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Old 08-23-2016, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,160 posts, read 5,639,466 times
Reputation: 6193

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I've spent a lot of time in Europe. Houses there are built with roofs that last 50-75 years. Floors are usually solid wood, marble, or stone. All interior doors are made with solid wood. Walls are more solid feeling (knock on a wall here in the US and it sounds hollow). However, things like plumbing and insulation are very similar. American homes might even have better insulation.

Some people think that because many European homes are hundreds of years old, they are better built. I suppose it's true. But even the newer homes in Europe are build better. I rented a house in France that was built in the 1950s and it had all of the features I mentioned above.

Even the $500,000 home that my friend's parents bought doesn't feel as sturdy as the crappy studio I rented in Paris years back.

Why are construction methods so different between the US and other parts of the world?
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,669 posts, read 29,550,848 times
Reputation: 33180
Compare costs.
Most people in Europe rent. Not own.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,829 posts, read 14,013,304 times
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American construction is noteworthy for its durability and longevity - NOT ! Americans suffer from overpriced underperforming marketing gee-whiz housing and builder grade schlock... all code approved! Even "luxury" homes are built to fall apart, on schedule. Planned obsolescence and high maintenance is great for the economy, but not so great for the home owner.
. . .
Given the opportunity, American housing constructors will do the best thing for profits and ignore the long term consequences. To illustrate, after the devastation of Katrina, the Gulf and New Orleans area was rebuilt - with - WOOD FRAMING. (ARGH). This area is infested with TERMITES, at risk from FLOODING, high winds and flying debris, susceptible to FIRE, and they rebuild it with ephemeral wood framing?
. . .
Why not build out of sturdy, durable, resilient materials like concrete, stone, rammed earth?
Why not use fire resistant metal roofing?
Why not use superinsulation to reduce the cost of HVAC operation?
Why forbid dry composting toilets or discourage installing bidets?

The Defenders of the Status Quo won't allow - usurers, politicians, and trade groups. The government / banker / industry defined building code still specifies engineering minimums that are pitiful. In fact, they contribute to the increased consumption of fuel and resources, due to the lowest common denominator mentality that bureaucrats embrace. Ditto, for planned obsolescence, ephemeral appliances and maintaining the demand for continuous consumption.
The net result is overpriced, underperforming, overtaxed, underwhelming, wasteful shelter that costs the mortgaged owner 3 to 4 times its selling price.

Last edited by jetgraphics; 08-23-2016 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
17,403 posts, read 65,544,355 times
Reputation: 23516
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
Compare costs.
Most people in Europe rent. Not own.


...and that has what to do with construction methods?
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
17,403 posts, read 65,544,355 times
Reputation: 23516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
American construction is noteworthy for its durability and longevity - NOT ! Americans suffer from overpriced underperforming marketing gee-whiz housing and builder grade schlock... all code approved! Even "luxury" homes are built to fall apart, on schedule. Planned obsolescence and high maintenance is great for the economy, but not so great for the home owner.
. . .
Given the opportunity, American housing constructors will do the best thing for profits and ignore the long term consequences. To illustrate, after the devastation of Katrina, the Gulf and New Orleans area was rebuilt - with - WOOD FRAMING. (ARGH). This area is infested with TERMITES, at risk from FLOODING, high winds and flying debris, susceptible to FIRE, and they rebuild it with ephemeral wood framing?
. . .
Why not build out of sturdy, durable, resilient materials like concrete, stone, rammed earth?
Why not use fire resistant metal roofing?
Why not use superinsulation to reduce the cost of HVAC operation?
Why forbid dry composting toilets or discourage installing bidets?

The Defenders of the Status Quo won't allow - usurers, politicians, and trade groups. The government / banker / industry defined building code still specifies engineering minimums that are pitiful. In fact, they contribute to the increased consumption of fuel and resources, due to the lowest common denominator mentality that bureaucrats embrace. Ditto, for planned obsolescence, ephemeral appliances and maintaining the demand for continuous consumption.
The net result is overpriced, underperforming, overtaxed, underwhelming, wasteful shelter that costs the mortgaged owner 3 to 4 times its selling price.


Feel better? Nothing like pointin' the finger at "the man".
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Sugarmill Woods , FL
6,234 posts, read 8,375,174 times
Reputation: 13809
Costs of higher quality materials vs market affordability. You don't build homes that people can't afford to buy.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,829 posts, read 14,013,304 times
Reputation: 16483
Quote:
Originally Posted by K'ledgeBldr View Post
Feel better? Nothing like pointin' the finger at "the man".
Personal experience is a great teacher. Back in the 1970s, I was a young engineer / family man with a desire for a simple, frugal, energy efficient domicile (Those were the days of the "Energy Crisis"). I approached several banks with a modest "four square" house plan built with USDA approved technology - dry stacked surface bonded concrete block, spec'd with R30 walls, R60 ceiling, terne coated stainless steel roofing, and they disapproved of it because they said it was (a) not like the market, (b) a white elephant, (c) no one else would buy it.
It did not matter that I wanted the house to pass on to my g'g'g'grandkids.
"They" control what can be built and lived in.
I suspect that even if I had the cash to pay for it, the local zoning / building gnomes would have found fault with its “excessive” features, resilience, and disaster resistance. (Surface bonded block walls have six times the racking strength of regular mortared walls)
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,829 posts, read 14,013,304 times
Reputation: 16483
Quote:
Originally Posted by froglipz View Post
Costs of higher quality materials vs market affordability. You don't build homes that people can't afford to buy.
And yet there are folks, like the Amish, who have "house raisings" and endow newlyweds with a whole house, sans mortgage.
Imagine that.
A few generations ago, many communities had house and barn raisings, that were far less expensive to build and own, since there weren't socialist taxes, bureaucrats to fund, and code enforcers.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:54 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,928,817 times
Reputation: 18723
Default Open your eyes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I've spent a lot of time in Europe. Houses there are built with roofs that last 50-75 years. Floors are usually solid wood, marble, or stone. All interior doors are made with solid wood. Walls are more solid feeling (knock on a wall here in the US and it sounds hollow). However, things like plumbing and insulation are very similar. American homes might even have better insulation.

Some people think that because many European homes are hundreds of years old, they are better built. I suppose it's true. But even the newer homes in Europe are build better. I rented a house in France that was built in the 1950s and it had all of the features I mentioned above.

Even the $500,000 home that my friend's parents bought doesn't feel as sturdy as the crappy studio I rented in Paris years back.

Why are construction methods so different between the US and other parts of the world?
Other parts of the world? Gimme a break! I've been in enough different countries to see that generalizations are idiotic. There is no way to compare some impoverished community where there has never been stable employment with an area where you'll find literal billionaires by the dozen.

There are parts of the UK where folks still burn coal & peat to stay warm in the winter. I've been visited spots in Germany where folks put up with water heaters that are more like something you'd have in a RV or camping trailer. Even in generally energy conscious parts of Sweden many people live in homes with terrible lack of insulation.

People even in modern cities in Japan generally do not have the kinds of appliances that are common parts of darned near every US home -- full size ovens, dishwashers, clothes dryers are just about unknown!
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
17,403 posts, read 65,544,355 times
Reputation: 23516
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I've spent a lot of time in Europe. Houses there are built with roofs that last 50-75 years. Floors are usually solid wood, marble, or stone. All interior doors are made with solid wood. Walls are more solid feeling (knock on a wall here in the US and it sounds hollow). However, things like plumbing and insulation are very similar. American homes might even have better insulation.

Some people think that because many European homes are hundreds of years old, they are better built. I suppose it's true. But even the newer homes in Europe are build better. I rented a house in France that was built in the 1950s and it had all of the features I mentioned above.

Even the $500,000 home that my friend's parents bought doesn't feel as sturdy as the crappy studio I rented in Paris years back.

Why are construction methods so different between the US and other parts of the world?


The differences have more to do with a combination of climate, locally available materials, and a history of "that's the way it's been done for 100's of years. Nature resources like timber are highly protected in countries like Germany- so they use materials like stone and concrete. Timber was an overwhelming commodity here in the "new country"- so the majority of dwellings built here in the US is timber- exceptions would be the southwest where Adobe building was predominate- because of the lack of timber.

Other issues are extremely high taxes, and fuels- some countries tax by the room (no closets), heating oil, gas are costly resulting in small heaters, stoves, refrigerators, and water heaters.

Most of today's homes- which are built by only 10% of all builders are built for profit, and affordability. Homes can just as easily be built to the same standards as homes in the UE, but they would be highly over built for the climate, and certainly would not be an "affordable" home.

Yes;there are exceptions, but most of those were built at a time, and commissioned by, those that were icons of the Industrial Revolution- Biltmore House, Castle Hill, Carnegie Mansion, Rockefeller Mansion, and for similar construction, you could throw the White House in there also.

Last edited by K'ledgeBldr; 08-23-2016 at 11:05 PM..
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