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Doesn't have to be historic. My first house built in 1980 had hardwood floors that were sanded. Of course, this was before prefinished flooring and all the homes then had them and the houses weren't expensive then but they are now (outside of Boston market). They were beautiful oak not stained just polyurethaned. Loved them. Used to get down on my hands and knees and wipe them with murphy's oil soap and wax them with bowling alley wax (just the edges and the long hall). My husband put in prefinished flooring in our second house. It looked nice but yes, I could tell the difference plus they weren't as hard as the oak I had even though they were supposedly oak.
Oh, I know. Staircases too. We had hardwood in early 80s also. Then again in another home in mid 80s. Loved it even in the bathrooms and kitchen. We were familiar with that so we went with it in a new home and when other buyers saw it they all wanted the same. In another home, a craftsman, we found the old wood, some oak, under linoleum in the kitchen and tile in the bathrooms and preserved on the other floors and stairs.
To add a little to this, I have heard several people say a house has hardwood floors. They apparently meant just "wood" vs. carpet because the floors were then pine, a softer wood.
We loved living in historic homes with all hardwood, a real plus because in the old days, well off people had hard wood on the first floor showing their wealth. And often pine on the second floor where the private rooms would be. But homes of extremely wealthy people back in the day would have hard wood on the first AND second floors. Almost impossible to afford nowadays.
Old growth yellow pine is a hardwood, or at least has the characteristics of modern "hardwood" It i s not as hard as old grown maple, oak or walnut, but it is much harder than any other types of wood in common use. Other types of pine are pretty soft. We have some floors that we eventually learned are old growth yellow pine. We had all kinds of experts in to tell us what type of wood it was. Some of it was dark - some said walnut, some said maple with stain, some said must be birch because of the grain. Only a few identified it as stained yellow pine. Another room it had a reddish tone. Some said cherry. "Cherry Maple" whatever that is, or apple. No just yellow pine with the patina of age.
Tough part is matching the grain and color for any patching the has to be done. Tried all kinds of things and the match was terrible. Finally we took some flooring out of a closet for one location and got some yellow pine flooring from a salvage place in another.
Another room has softer pine of some type. This floor is badly worn. We have to decide whether to try to patch it, just refinish what is left and live with a few gaps, or replace the whole thing. Hate to replace it, it is the "new" part of the house, but that means 1868.
Interestingly, our community was covered with Ash trees (before the ash borer killed them all). However not one historic house I know of has any ash used either structurally or for finsih. I wonder why not. Some have local oak, walnut, maple. One house even has some trim made of Osage Orange. No ash, despite the availability of thousands and thousands of ash trees.
Old growth yellow pine is a hardwood, or at least has the characteristics of modern "hardwood" It i s not as hard as old grown maple, oak or walnut, but it is much harder than any other types of wood in common use. Other types of pine are pretty soft. We have some floors that we eventually learned are old growth yellow pine. We had all kinds of experts in to tell us what type of wood it was. Some of it was dark - some said walnut, some said maple with stain, some said must be birch because of the grain. Only a few identified it as stained yellow pine. Another room it had a reddish tone. Some said cherry. "Cherry Maple" whatever that is, or apple. No just yellow pine with the patina of age.
Nope. Wrong.
"Hardwood" means deciduous trees, i.e., lose their leaves in winter (yes, there are exceptions such as live oak), have flowers and seeds/nuts, flat leaves, versus "softwood" which are conifers.
Pine is never a hardwood.
However, narrow-grained yellow pine can be a very hard wood. Bald cypress (a conifer, but by the way I have never heard of it being used for floors) is a "softwood" which is very very hard. Pecan, willow, box, cottonwood, are some deciduous (hardwood) species that are fairly soft.
Bamboo, which is rumored to make a pretty good flooring material, isn't even a tree at all, it's a grass; so I'm not sure whether it can even be called "wood".
I recently had some repairs made to oak floors that were laid down in 1939. The new wood was laced in and if you didn't know where the repairs were, you would not know which was new and which was old. The whole house was sanded and refinished, which I didn't really want to do, but the floor guys told me that they could not ensure matching of the finishes since they didn't know what the finish on the existing floor was. Since my parents had already had the whole house sanded and refinished about 25 years ago (thus destroying the patina of 50 years - I could have just shaken them!) I went ahead with sanding.
I consider "engineered" and "Prefinished" wood floors to be cheap shortcuts - that probably aren't really all that much cheaper than putting down the real thing.
The antique wide pine/ other floors from the 1800s are a whole different matter, with which I have no experience.
"Hardwood" means deciduous trees, i.e., lose their leaves in winter (yes, there are exceptions such as live oak), have flowers and seeds/nuts, flat leaves, versus "softwood" which are conifers.
Pine is never a hardwood.
However, narrow-grained yellow pine can be a very hard wood. Bald cypress (a conifer, but by the way I have never heard of it being used for floors) is a "softwood" which is very very hard. Pecan, willow, box, cottonwood, are some deciduous (hardwood) species that are fairly soft.
Bamboo, which is rumored to make a pretty good flooring material, isn't even a tree at all, it's a grass; so I'm not sure whether it can even be called "wood".
I recently had some repairs made to oak floors that were laid down in 1939. The new wood was laced in and if you didn't know where the repairs were, you would not know which was new and which was old. The whole house was sanded and refinished, which I didn't really want to do, but the floor guys told me that they could not ensure matching of the finishes since they didn't know what the finish on the existing floor was. Since my parents had already had the whole house sanded and refinished about 25 years ago (thus destroying the patina of 50 years - I could have just shaken them!) I went ahead with sanding.
I consider "engineered" and "Prefinished" wood floors to be cheap shortcuts - that probably aren't really all that much cheaper than putting down the real thing.
The antique wide pine/ other floors from the 1800s are a whole different matter, with which I have no experience.
Uh, engineered wood is the 'real thing'... it's made out of wood, AFAIK. And what's so wrong with providing a budget friendly alternative to solid wood? You'll find MANY homes these days with engineered. In fact, it was recommended that we use engineered since it is being installed on a slab. I have both engineered and solid hardwood and both perform the same and both have frikkin scratches. I frankly can't tell which is better than the other, though I'm sure people have to find some reason to poke their chests out. The only differences I see between the two are the beveled edges and the fact that refinish the solid more times. Other than that, nada.
i've had solid oak floors in NYC (wood flooring is not a big deal there since most apartments have them) that were site finished. they were just ok.
Side question...has anyone ever sanded and re-stained the engineered hardwood?
I know they say you can but does it really work?
When I moved into my apartment, we had the real parquet floors, but unfortunetely they were damaged beyond repair. I bought new pre finished parquet floor wood tiles (light grey, it was 1990), they looked great, did the whole apartment, so I'm assuming these are what is considered "engineered hardwood"?
so 10 years after that, the gray was wearing away and time for a change, I had the floors sanded, wow, was there grain in them that I never saw before, I stained them "minwax jacobean", and polyed them matte finish, they came out very good.
But, one thing I never thought of, and it was in another thread that I didnt understand: "oils in feet"...
My bedroom was the last floor to stain so it was raw unfinished for a week, when I stained and then polyed them, in a few places I see faint heal and toe marks. OMG, no........I'm thinking it was the oils of my feet......lesson learned, wear sneakers.
also another pet peeve of floor sanding, when they do the edges they use a circular sander, and to me it looks it, as it seems to gauge the floor a little deeper and in circular motion than a regular sander and thus made the stain look a little different around the perimeter of the room..
so before I stained the bedroom floor I went with my regular electric sander and re sanded the perimeter in a back forth motion, it did make a difference. I wish I would have seen the footprints then, but it was too late when I did
Uh, engineered wood is the 'real thing'... it's made out of wood, AFAIK. And what's so wrong with providing a budget friendly alternative to solid wood? You'll find MANY homes these days with engineered. In fact, it was recommended that we use engineered since it is being installed on a slab. I have both engineered and solid hardwood and both perform the same and both have frikkin scratches. I frankly can't tell which is better than the other, though I'm sure people have to find some reason to poke their chests out. The only differences I see between the two are the beveled edges and the fact that refinish the solid more times. Other than that, nada.
i've had solid oak floors in NYC (wood flooring is not a big deal there since most apartments have them) that were site finished. they were just ok.
Right on about the engineered hardwoods. They do scratch, just like solid hardwood floors scratch.
We shopped around for flooring options when we bought our 1997 custom built home that needed all new flooring (it was built on a slab and nearly all rooms were carpeted or tile and we wanted to go with mostly hardwoods). Solid hardwood flooring was about DOUBLE the cost of the engineered hardwood that we eventually settled on. This wasn't a "hard" settle, since we'd had the very same engineered hardwood in our previous home and loved it. It looks like real wood, well, because it IS real wood. It wears like real wood. After all, we're not ice skating or walking around in cleats in our house.
The price difference was substantial. I can think of more interesting ways to spend money - in fact, I did just that and we remodeled our kitchen instead of putting in solid hardwoods and having to leave the kitchen undone till later. The money we saved payed for 2/3s of our kitchen remodel, for some perspective.
"Hardwood" means deciduous trees, i.e., lose their leaves in winter (yes, there are exceptions such as live oak), have flowers and seeds/nuts, flat leaves, versus "softwood" which are conifers.
Pine is never a hardwood.
However, narrow-grained yellow pine can be a very hard wood. Bald cypress (a conifer, but by the way I have never heard of it being used for floors) is a "softwood" which is very very hard. Pecan, willow, box, cottonwood, are some deciduous (hardwood) species that are fairly soft.
Bamboo, which is rumored to make a pretty good flooring material, isn't even a tree at all, it's a grass; so I'm not sure whether it can even be called "wood".
I recently had some repairs made to oak floors that were laid down in 1939. The new wood was laced in and if you didn't know where the repairs were, you would not know which was new and which was old. The whole house was sanded and refinished, which I didn't really want to do, but the floor guys told me that they could not ensure matching of the finishes since they didn't know what the finish on the existing floor was. Since my parents had already had the whole house sanded and refinished about 25 years ago (thus destroying the patina of 50 years - I could have just shaken them!) I went ahead with sanding.
I consider "engineered" and "Prefinished" wood floors to be cheap shortcuts - that probably aren't really all that much cheaper than putting down the real thing.
The antique wide pine/ other floors from the 1800s are a whole different matter, with which I have no experience.
Reading Error 101. Please try agian
"Old Growth yellow pine is a hardwood or at least has the characteristics of hardwood."
Did you miss the end of the sentence, or not able to understand it?
Old growth yellow pine was treated as a hardwood and was often referred to as a hardwood. It was used to make flooring, siding, moldings. The yellow pine popular in the 1800s was extremely hard, did not take nail well and resembled oak more than pine in its characteristics. It is not longer available.
Cottonwood is beyond soft. I cannot see it having any use at all in construction. I can push a nail into a cottonwood tree with my bare hand.
The reference is not to the type of tree, but to whether the wood is hard or soft. Thus, as you point out, deciduous trees with soft woods and not Hardwood. They are softwood despite not being pine. Balsa for example is also a softwood, but a deciduous tree.
The hardest wood I know of, manzinita, is actually a bush. I have seen Manzinita flooring once,but it was flakes of manzanita glued together. I do not know whether it can be sanded for a smooth finish. Maybe they grind it like terazzo.
The hardest wood I know of, manzinita, is actually a bush. I have seen Manzinita flooring once,but it was flakes of manzanita glued together. I do not know whether it can be sanded for a smooth finish. Maybe they grind it like terazzo.
many years ago, we had family friends with SoCal acreage that had substantial old growth stands of manzanita.
when they cleared some of the land for homesites, they had planks milled from that downed wood.
they sold most of it to a box-maker ... who turned it into jewelry boxes or small souvenir trinket boxes for the tourist traps. It was no big deal to sand it smooth with a big drum sander before shellacking the surface.
I've never seen branches of that where they were long enough to make planks suitable for flooring. Maybe parquet squares?
several years later, they went to clear more homesites. They were told that the plants were now a "protected species" due to their rarity and could not be harvested without a permit even though on private property. They had to go through some lengths to get that permit.
PS: on a Janka test, manzanita typically runs around 2350 lbs hardness. Many woods are much harder. We used to use Iron Wood or Lignum Vitae for floorboards in our wooden racing sailboats when we needed to put weight near the center of effort/bottom of the boat ... these woods were dense and heavy ... but tested out in the range of over 4400 lbs hardness. Much harder than manzanita and available in planks.
"Old Growth yellow pine is a hardwood or at least has the characteristics of hardwood."
Did you miss the end of the sentence, or not able to understand it?
Old growth yellow pine was treated as a hardwood and was often referred to as a hardwood. It was used to make flooring, siding, moldings. The yellow pine popular in the 1800s was extremely hard, did not take nail well and resembled oak more than pine in its characteristics. It is not longer available.
Cottonwood is beyond soft. I cannot see it having any use at all in construction. I can push a nail into a cottonwood tree with my bare hand.
The reference is not to the type of tree, but to whether the wood is hard or soft. Thus, as you point out, deciduous trees with soft woods and not Hardwood. They are softwood despite not being pine. Balsa for example is also a softwood, but a deciduous tree.
The hardest wood I know of, manzinita, is actually a bush. I have seen Manzinita flooring once,but it was flakes of manzanita glued together. I do not know whether it can be sanded for a smooth finish. Maybe they grind it like terazzo.
The same thing is true of old Douglas Fir. The framing and supporting timbers of my house are 90 year old Douglas fir, and so is all the window trim (probably the moldings as well). Trying to drill into any of the window trim to install drapery hardware takes a 20 volt drill, at a minimum. That stuff is like iron!
For whatever reason, the terms "hardwood" and "softwood" (one word) have botanical meaning that is not equivalent to whether the trees yield hard wood or soft wood (two words).
Hardwoods (one word) are broadleafed flowering trees that usually lose their leaves in the winter. Softwoods (one word) are needle leaved conifers that almost always are evergreen. You don't have to like this usage (I don't, I think it would be better to use "conifer" and "deciduous" or such) but it is the usage.
And as I noted, at least one flooring material ain't even wood at all (bamboo), although it certainly acts a lot like wood in this particular application.
When I hear someone talk about "hardwood floors" I expect they are talking about oak, maple, or less common options like cherry, walnut, mahogany. I do not expect they are talking about pine, and I have not heard people familiar with flooring call pine floors, or bamboo floors, "hardwood" except for the generally loose usage of real estate people and marketeers (most of whom wouldn't know a screwdriver from a bus driver anyway).
Now if you are talking about whether conifers can make hard wood (two words), darn straight they can. Old/older growth YP; douglas fir; bald cypress are 3 examples I know from personal experience. And broadleaf trees can make soft wood (two words). Balsa; willow; cottonwood; box; etc., etc., etc.
I grew up in a house built in 1936, where all the studs were Douglas fir; the walls were 1 x 6 tongue and groove Douglas fir, which was originally papered over, and sometime I guess in the 50s, thin sheetrock was put over the 1 x 6s. I thought that was just the way houses were built. I never understood references to "putting your fist through the wall". Imagine putting your fist through a wall of 1 x 6 tongue and groove Douglas fir! You'd have to be King Kong! I bet if you could figure out a way to install it, you could put a big eye bolt on top of the house, pick it up with a crane, and move it to a new location without even racking a single door or window. Solid, man, solid!
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