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That is another issue here. The by-laws state that the association is responsible for the flues and the chimneys. I remember a person who is a huge complainer about everything, all the time, so it's hard to take her seriously, ranting about the lack of the association ever cleaning the chimneys. Turns out she is right.
Turns out 'The Dark Side' was right about a few things, they just didn't present their case well. They don't quote the by-laws. No one does. Everyone just says what they think should and should not be done but now that I have made it my life's work to know everything there is to be known, most of this is in black and white. Non-negotiable. Some things could be amended by 51% owner approval, some could not because they are state law.
My friend is wearing me out discussing these things because she doesn't like it that the association is ever responsible for anything, and it seems other prior board members felt the same. She's like inspect/clean the chimneys, really? I'm like yes, really. It's a safety issue, and safety issues are not left up to individual owners, we might have another damn fire from people using their fireplaces and chimneys that haven't been attended to in 30 years.
Of course I am wearing her out by pointing out all the things the association is in fact responsible for. I hope our friendship can survive disagreements about association matters, because she is a dear friend. Not just a neighbor-friend.
I'm not sure I understand your friend's situation, but it might be that. She did a proper fire in her fireplace, but there was something in the chimney? Something wrong with the flue?
Either way, if they neglected to do what they were supposed to do, then good on her for sticking to her guns. No one wants association costs to go up, since we all pay for them, but on the other end, if we pay our dues, we are entitled to what that dues is supposed to go for!
I think that people who want the association to only pay for the grounds and amenities and nothing for the owners, they should move somewhere that is the case, because it isn't here. And on the other end, people who want everything done for them also need to move, as that isn't how our documents are written, and everyone including myself had the opportunity to read them before deciding to buy here.
As for me living peacefully, I think I am wrapping up my involvement. Once I am clear on what is what, I don't have to pay constant attention to everything. If something comes to my attention that affects me, I now am equipped to argue my case if need be.
Involving myself more - there is just no point. I make everyone unhappy in what I say, because I say the truth as I see it (after being like a dog with a bone until I have every detail I want). Politicians say what people want to hear, and that is not me. It is also not me to BS people to win them to my side.
I guess my mind is more simple. What do the by-laws, state laws, etc. say? Do whatever they say!
Well, at least you'll be a witness to any damage done by those doing inappropriate, maybe illegal things on the board if it comes to it. Yes, you reminded me that was exactly it. The flues were to be taken care of by the association workmen. They were not. She was often concerned and they put her off. One reason they were supposed to be maintained by the association is because it was group housing, everyone so close and a fire could have wide reaching effect. Well, you did your best with that group.
My friend makes a good point, though. Why has she never pursued it? I think she is upset with me for saying it seems to me that lady has a case. Like I am against the association. But we are the association. We pay for that master policy, why is it greedy to use it when needed?
I agree with you... but the board is probably not wanting to use it because the premium will rise.
My stupid condo leader wanted the insurance to pay for something that was not really covered under the insurance. But almost every condo had the issue. Thank god the insurance said no because the cost to the entire association would have been hit with a premium raise.
Jen, why don't you attend each board meeting? My board allows for residents to do that. At one point I was going to do that but was informed... get this.. there were no meetings. There was one person on the board and he wasn't having them.
So I bought a foreclosure. This had a retaining wall of about 180 linear ft (and patio) at the back which was in real bad shape. A portion of that wall had collapsed and away from the collapsed portions were huge vertical cracks and it was obvious to anyone that you either rebuild the whole thing or get rid of it at least partially. The property has decent slope and 2nd owner had made his backyard pretty much flat (by this retaining wall) and had pavers installed). Now rebuilding was very expensive considering it was not done right at the beginning (and that was the reason it collapsed so badly and so quickly like in 10 years). It was going to cost at least 100K (I had crazy coats like 50K just to build collapsed section but reasonably it could be rebuild around 100K). I decided to get rid of the troubled portion (linear ft 120). The area that was affected by this retaining wall (and patio) was about 1800 sq ft. The dirt that was going to be taken off the property was estimated to be about 75 cu yard and county does not require permit if the disturbed area is less than 5000 sq ft OR less than 75 cu ft. I started the process with HOA. They started arguing that this is going to cause a huge change in water drainage and houses down the hill will have water issues (one of the HOA members)! I asked them how could that be as retaing wall was not build by original builder but added like 5years after that. All we were going to do is just make it as it was originally and match our backyard to the neighbors on both sides. They insisted we get the county permit. I called county they said permit is not required. HOA demanded I should start the process and have them work inspected and complete the approval from HOA before it begins!! We kept on going back and forth for 2 months and then and started the work. The guy who owns the house down the hill called HOA and they called me and demanded work be stopped otherwise there will be consequences. I said OK but work continued and it was done in 3 days. HOA personnel sent me an email and said this was very unfortunate and now there are discussing how to proceed. I kept on explaining her very calmly that how this was the only option for me to go ahead with and so on and I was extremely polite as I did not want to take up a fight with HOA. Then she said they may even ask me to rebuild the wall!!! I said if that is the case you can tell them to meet me in the court directly - will save everybody's time. A few days after work, I see someone in my backyard taking pics etc. That was county inspector - I talked to him he looked at how the work was done and was happy. Did not bother to measure how big it was because it was obviously smaller than where a permit was needed. Director of architectural committee showed up and county inspector told him that everything is Ok and we didn't need any permit. I did not want to escalate so again I was super nice apologizing that we had to do this and so on and that somehow triggered her and she started dropping s-word etc. Then they had a meeting and HOA personnel told me there would be fine. I said OK but I would only pay token fine to make you happy not more than that as I did absolutely nothing wrong so please choose carefully what you fine me. End result - no fine either! So yeah I don't like HOA and they are just troubles. Maybe they do some good but that is really negligible.
I agree with you... but the board is probably not wanting to use it because the premium will rise.
My stupid condo leader wanted the insurance to pay for something that was not really covered under the insurance. But almost every condo had the issue. Thank god the insurance said no because the cost to the entire association would have been hit with a premium raise.
Jen, why don't you attend each board meeting? My board allows for residents to do that. At one point I was going to do that but was informed... get this.. there were no meetings. There was one person on the board and he wasn't having them.
We were already making a claim for the building. I don't see how it would be a huge hit to include her interior to the extent provided by the by-laws, and it doesn't matter what they wanted or didn't want, it's a matter of right and wrong.
You did clue me in to why they didn't want to do it though, if they did it for the uninsured lady, they would have had to do it for the two that were insured. Pay their part before the other insurance companies paid theirs.
It's still wrong. And it didn't work out well, did it? This lady is coming back now wanting more than just her interior. She wants compensation for being displaced for three years. My friend rants at me 'can you believe she is doing that?' And I'm like yeah, I can. Why shouldn't she?
I don't feel like this is rocket science. We want to contain costs, but screwing owners over is not the way to do that. It is what it is. There was a fire the origins of which are not conclusive. That falls under the master policy. End of story.
Not only do our by-laws say we must carry that coverage, Texas property code says we must. We can't be breaking laws to screw people over and contain costs!
Board meetings? Ha. Remember my primary complaint is the current board. They'd have two meetings in a year, and the final one will be another election.
We get a 2 hour lecture and then during 'Q&A' they don't want to answer questions. They answered us the way real politicians do- with nonsense. They have no minutes, they don't follow any kind of procedure, they just do what they want. Like what they accused the prior boards of doing. And around it goes.
The lady who has been at this for many years said to me that getting involved is stepping into a dark place, where ignorance really is bliss, and knowledge is not power.
I was like dude. But look, she was right. I don't agree with most of her allegations against the prior boards, but on two occasions now I have pissed my friend off to the highest levels.
This lady and two others did a lawsuit against them and I've listened to my friend's version of it and believed it and only it.
Ironically, if she didn't keep bringing it up to me I wouldn't have gone digging. But in a mass email that lady brought up how the judge ruled against the prior board on an important point, so my friend kept ranting, what is she talking about? Where does it say that? I never saw a paper saying that. Where is it?
Well, ask and ye shall receive. I went and got the paper saying that. Summary judgement against the defendants. Black and white. I'm like THERE. THAT is what she is talking about. She's right.
Her next thing was doors. The board is replacing doors. They are not supposed to replace doors! Doors are the responsibility of the owner. _____ did a resolution to conform that. Why did we need a resolution saying what already is? She didn't know, so I go print his resolution and the original maintenance chart and say look, he omitted doors and windows and flues and chimneys. He can't do that w/o a 51% vote. It conflicts with the by-laws. It's invalid. We ARE responsible for doors! (and the rest, but doors were the topic)
And now the fire thing. I suppose something would have eventually caused me to follow up on it, after the attorney had said to me there is a possible conflict between the by-laws and governing documents, but I had set that aside since he's the attorney, and just wait to hear the results.
But everyday rant rant about the NERVE of this lady I ask questions to understand the context of the rant and the answers don't make sense, so I go digging and poof, there it is.
So, here is what I have accomplished in a year of participation: I got the general ledger. Whoop de doo. Anyone could have. It only required picking up the phone and talking to the attorney. That was nothing special. That would have eventually come about without me.
I have spent hours upon hours upon hours playing paralegal to discover that ish and damn - the people I always supported were not so perfect, and one of them is my friend, who I don't want to be arguing with.
It's like that saying do you want to be right or be happy? Well, I am glad I know everything I do from the standpoint that if anything comes up having to do with ME, or maybe someone I care about that is vulnerable and/or lacks the knowledge and needs help I am equipped, but participation in this circus?
It's doing nothing but **** people off for nothing gained. The board hates me. The candidate who is likely to get on in a month THREATENED me. I wouldn't say my friend hates me now, but she is definitely hurt or offended or something.
This is a dark place. Decades of personal grudges and power struggles and cut throat politics. It's no place for me. I like harmony, but apparently not enough to chew ish and say thank you for the meal, so it's best to just stay out of it all.
So I bought a foreclosure. This had a retaining wall of about 180 linear ft (and patio) at the back which was in real bad shape. A portion of that wall had collapsed and away from the collapsed portions were huge vertical cracks and it was obvious to anyone that you either rebuild the whole thing or get rid of it at least partially. The property has decent slope and 2nd owner had made his backyard pretty much flat (by this retaining wall) and had pavers installed). Now rebuilding was very expensive considering it was not done right at the beginning (and that was the reason it collapsed so badly and so quickly like in 10 years). It was going to cost at least 100K (I had crazy coats like 50K just to build collapsed section but reasonably it could be rebuild around 100K). I decided to get rid of the troubled portion (linear ft 120). The area that was affected by this retaining wall (and patio) was about 1800 sq ft. The dirt that was going to be taken off the property was estimated to be about 75 cu yard and county does not require permit if the disturbed area is less than 5000 sq ft OR less than 75 cu ft. I started the process with HOA. They started arguing that this is going to cause a huge change in water drainage and houses down the hill will have water issues (one of the HOA members)! I asked them how could that be as retaing wall was not build by original builder but added like 5years after that. All we were going to do is just make it as it was originally and match our backyard to the neighbors on both sides. They insisted we get the county permit. I called county they said permit is not required. HOA demanded I should start the process and have them work inspected and complete the approval from HOA before it begins!! We kept on going back and forth for 2 months and then and started the work. The guy who owns the house down the hill called HOA and they called me and demanded work be stopped otherwise there will be consequences. I said OK but work continued and it was done in 3 days. HOA personnel sent me an email and said this was very unfortunate and now there are discussing how to proceed. I kept on explaining her very calmly that how this was the only option for me to go ahead with and so on and I was extremely polite as I did not want to take up a fight with HOA. Then she said they may even ask me to rebuild the wall!!! I said if that is the case you can tell them to meet me in the court directly - will save everybody's time. A few days after work, I see someone in my backyard taking pics etc. That was county inspector - I talked to him he looked at how the work was done and was happy. Did not bother to measure how big it was because it was obviously smaller than where a permit was needed. Director of architectural committee showed up and county inspector told him that everything is Ok and we didn't need any permit. I did not want to escalate so again I was super nice apologizing that we had to do this and so on and that somehow triggered her and she started dropping s-word etc. Then they had a meeting and HOA personnel told me there would be fine. I said OK but I would only pay token fine to make you happy not more than that as I did absolutely nothing wrong so please choose carefully what you fine me. End result - no fine either! So yeah I don't like HOA and they are just troubles. Maybe they do some good but that is really negligible.
You did very well! All of my reading over and over will say do not pick a fight with HOA if it can be avoided. They have broad powers and can make your life miserable. You seemed to walk the fine line of standing up for yourself and having your ducks in a row.
We get a 2 hour lecture and then during 'Q&A' they don't want to answer questions. They answered us the way real politicians do- with nonsense. They have no minutes, they don't follow any kind of procedure, they just do what they want. Like what they accused the prior boards of doing. And around it goes.
This happened last year at the meeting. In fact it was so bad that we had an election where major things wren't done due to time. It all happened in the last 3 minutes of the meeting. In fact you could argue it wasn't valid as several people left. This year... it will be a different story. I am going to do demand that we only have an hour where the board talks and we have an hour for Q&A and unlike last year I am going to tell people to stop yelling questions out in the first half.
Quote:
Her next thing was doors. The board is replacing doors. They are not supposed to replace doors! Doors are the responsibility of the owner. _____ did a resolution to conform that. Why did we need a resolution saying what already is? She didn't know, so I go print his resolution and the original maintenance chart and say look, he omitted doors and windows and flues and chimneys. He can't do that w/o a 51% vote. It conflicts with the by-laws. It's invalid. We ARE responsible for doors! (and the rest, but doors were the topic)
Similar thing happened here. I am doing a revamp of our rules and I wanted to make clear what was.. or was not.. common area. So we agreed that the external vent was common area (it is not addressed in the docs) because it is on the outside, but then, they said the lamps on the units were the unit owners responsibility. That makes so sense with what they just said. I know that isn't right. I have decided to just not put that in. This is yet another area that isn't addressed in the docs. But to me it is simple.. if it is on the outside... it is condo. PERIOD. I am going to guess this is why it isn't addressed because it seemed so simple.
One reason I complained at my board this year about the minutes is that I found out that if the IRS audits the condo they first thing the IRS will want to see is the minutes. And it won't be good if you don' have them. Just saying.
Yesterday I drove past a nice / newish detached condo development with 300+ units. Even though it is kind of in the middle of no where, I am seriously considering making an offer. What is worse.. hassle of driving on snow days OR a hassle every single day of your life.
This happened last year at the meeting. In fact it was so bad that we had an election where major things wren't done due to time. It all happened in the last 3 minutes of the meeting. In fact you could argue it wasn't valid as several people left. This year... it will be a different story. I am going to do demand that we only have an hour where the board talks and we have an hour for Q&A and unlike last year I am going to tell people to stop yelling questions out in the first half.
One thing I did like that they did and you might too, is that there were cards to put our name and other information on, including email, so they can grow their email list. Everyone could put a question on the card.
It won't stop some questions from being called out, because some things you say in your presentation are going to cause spontaneous questions, but from my POV the cards served purposes. One, some people are shy and don't want to stand up to ask theirs. It's ok for their q to be 'anonymous' to the 'audience'.
And the President did organize the cards well and answer the q's in a logical order. Saving some of the big things for last, like the DRAMA parts. This way people who didn't want to get into the drama parts could leave.
They didn't care about should the attorney be fired and why can't we see the financials and all that, they just wanted more basic things. I think that people who merely come to say 'My roof is leaking and I'm not getting a response from the community manager' should get to do that and leave if they want. I felt bad for people who did not care about the rest but had to sit for two hours just to say that.
Yesterday I drove past a nice / newish detached condo development with 300+ units. Even though it is kind of in the middle of no where, I am seriously considering making an offer. What is worse.. hassle of driving on snow days OR a hassle every single day of your life.
IDK, Emily, unless you want to just be an involved owner, I wonder if the larger the place, the more problems. Just statistically, the more people there are with their own opinions, the harder everything is. I have only related a small fraction of what has gone on here. I only KNOW a fraction.
And you say it's hard to get 51% where you are - so imagine even more people to try to get involved. Almost half our owners don't even live here.
The fact that it is newish might be a plus since there hasn't been a history to develop you'd be stepping into. Here it goes back over a decade.
IDK, Emily, unless you want to just be an involved owner, I wonder if the larger the place, the more problems.
I came from a large condo development before this and everyone said a smaller condo would be better. Nope... nope. I would like not to have an HOA but, seems if you want that you need to pay above my pay grade. Sucks.
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