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Hi, we live in east central Minnesota and are having serious problems with moisture accumulation and mold inside our 17 year old house during the extreme winters here. We have only owned this house for 2 years, but during both winters have been horrified to discover that when the temp drops toward or below zero (which it obviously does often up here) we get terrible condensation on the insides of the windows and walls which leads to ice accumulation and then mold. The moisture is ruining the wood trim around many of the windows and now we're beginning to see mold growing in the closets, which is a real problem especially because we suspect it's behind some health issues everyone in the house has been having.
Obviously we have some type of insulation issue and possibly insufficient windows to go with it. With the enormous costs that are going to accompany dealing with those my first question is would a dehumidifier of some type be worth investing in right now, or would that just be a putting a band-aid on a gash that needs stitches? The house is a split level with just under 2,000 sq ft. Thanks for any advice or suggestions, this is turning into a real disaster for us.
What type of windows do you have? Are they single pane or insulated double pane? Do you have storm windows? Wood frames or aluminum or PVC or some combination?
Condensation on the inside is indicative of cold air reaching the outer face of the glass closest to the inside. If they're double pane, the insulating space is compromised. If they're single pane with storm windows, the storms are not sealed or closed properly.
It also sounds like you have very high indoor humidity. What kind of heat source? Do you use the kitchen and bath vent fans regularly? A dehumidifier would definitely help, especially a whole house model.
What type of windows do you have? Are they single pane or insulated double pane? Do you have storm windows? Wood frames or aluminum or PVC or some combination?
Condensation on the inside is indicative of cold air reaching the outer face of the glass closest to the inside. If they're double pane, the insulating space is compromised. If they're single pane with storm windows, the storms are not sealed or closed properly.
It also sounds like you have very high indoor humidity. What kind of heat source? Do you use the kitchen and bath vent fans regularly? A dehumidifier would definitely help, especially a whole house model.
I'm no Mike Holmes, but they're definitely double pane. They appear to be set in aluminum and surrounded by wood frames that take the brunt of the moisture damage by becoming discolored and warped. Forgive my ignorance, but is it possible the double pane windows have seals that are bad and can you expound a bit on the insulating space being compromised?
Natural gas for heat. We don't use the bath vents in the winter because when we run them the condensation will start dripping and damage the ceiling.
Those whole house model dehumidifiers are not cheap. Sounds like we may not have a choice, though. I take it one or two of the smaller, cheaper versions would be insufficient.
I'm no Mike Holmes, but they're definitely double pane. They appear to be set in aluminum and surrounded by wood frames that take the brunt of the moisture damage by becoming discolored and warped. Forgive my ignorance, but is it possible the double pane windows have seals that are bad and can you expound a bit on the insulating space being compromised?
Natural gas for heat. We don't use the bath vents in the winter because when we run them the condensation will start dripping and damage the ceiling.
Those whole house model dehumidifiers are not cheap. Sounds like we may not have a choice, though. I take it one or two of the smaller, cheaper versions would be insufficient.
Are you measuring the actual humidity level in the rooms, HVAC, or just looking at the windows? What are the RH levels in the rooms themselves?
If just the seals around the double panes are shot (seals that keep the insulating gas injected between the panes in place), there would be condensation build up between the panes (fogging, moisture buildup, ice). If the actual window frames, sills, jambs are shot that could allow cold air to leak all the way through into the room. Cold air meeting the warmer more humid air of the room would condense, freeze, and saturate the entire window on the inside. Then support mold. Experts...did I get this right?
IDK if there is enough window surface in your house to inject enough moisture that it affects interior walls or your HVAC, but it seems to me you need to use some sort of air circulation in your bathrooms to get rid of the moisture showers and water produce. If you don't use the heat vents in the bathrooms and don't use exhaust fans either, that moisture is just building up in there. Maybe inside the HVAC vents...so it cools, condenses, and drips.
Last edited by Parnassia; 01-11-2020 at 02:22 PM..
When I moved up here to VT the house inspector noted a window sill that showed signs of water drips in a corner. I asked him what to do about that. He said open the shades/curtains during the day to let any frost or condensation from the windows evaporate into the room. I do see some condensation on the windows when it gets very cold.
Use your bathroom fan when you take showers.
I can't imagine so much moisture in the house in winter when the humidity is so low. How do you get mold in winter?
Last edited by ansible90; 01-11-2020 at 03:21 PM..
I am wondering if you have a water leak somewhere in the house.
You said you have gas heat, but is it forced air through ducts, or hot water baseboard, or steam heat? If hot water baseboard, walk around barefoot by all the baseboard units to see if you encounter any water on the floor/carpets. Some of my neighbors have had leaks in the baseboard system. Our houses are about 5 years older than yours.
The vents on the roof from the bathroom exhaust fans could be snow covered if you haven't been using them. Maybe you can clear them with a roof rake.
I'm no Mike Holmes, but they're definitely double pane. They appear to be set in aluminum and surrounded by wood frames that take the brunt of the moisture damage by becoming discolored and warped. Forgive my ignorance, but is it possible the double pane windows have seals that are bad and can you expound a bit on the insulating space being compromised?
Insulated window panes have an air space that's filled with inert gas (typically argon).
The gas won't transmit heat or cold as easily (higher R-value) as plain old air. It sounds more likely that there is air leakage around the window sashes and frames. Try putting some heat shrink plastic over the worst ones and see if that helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyryztoll
Natural gas for heat. We don't use the bath vents in the winter because when we run them the condensation will start dripping and damage the ceiling.
Natural gas combustion gives off a lot of moisture. Make sure the furnace is tuned up and properly vented. Vent fans will help A LOT! Yours may be blowing into the attic rather than outside through a roof vent. That can cause all sorts of problems.
I'm no Mike Holmes, but they're definitely double pane. They appear to be set in aluminum and surrounded by wood frames that take the brunt of the moisture damage by becoming discolored and warped. Forgive my ignorance, but is it possible the double pane windows have seals that are bad and can you expound a bit on the insulating space being compromised?
Natural gas for heat. We don't use the bath vents in the winter because when we run them the condensation will start dripping and damage the ceiling.
Those whole house model dehumidifiers are not cheap. Sounds like we may not have a choice, though. I take it one or two of the smaller, cheaper versions would be insufficient.
You have what is called an accidental dehumidification when a warm room air reaches the cold wall or cold glass.
Gas heat is not ideal: for every gallon of gas burned - it creates 4 gallons of moisture in the air.
The fastest solution is counterintuitive- open the windows - maybe in your upstairs bedroom ( moist warm air rises) for 15 min every morning- the outside air is dryer in winter. It is good to bring fresh dry air into the house.
Buy a humidistat - inexpensive- to monitor your interior humidity.
Look for sources of moisture in the house and reduce or eliminate them- cheaper then running a dehumidifier...
Wipe the glass on the windows when you see moisture - they say if you use a dump towel wet from the solution of salt and water- it could reduce the condensation.
When it is very cold- try to cook simple and fast meals in electric appliances like toaster oven, crock pot, electric grill. Don’t cook long simmering soups with gas
Showers make a lot of moisture: if you can have an enclosed shower- that is the best.
Google “ dome showers” images and description.
Try to minimize showers in frequency and duration if possible.
Don’t keep moist towels in the bathroom- throw them in the dryer( make sure the dryer vents outside and the vents are clean not clogged or use the condensing type dryer)
As an alternative: keep the door to the bathroom closed and use an electric heater before and after the shower to dry out the air- don’t leave them un attended!!
Look at the way to first reduce the creation of humidity.
Do you keep your house colder to save money? You may need to up the temperature sometimes- the warmer the air- the more moisture it could hold in the air and it warms the walls (so no accidental dehumidification occurs)
Long term your house may need air sealing: look it up. Only after that - insulation.
If you have a fireplace: make sure the damper is closed and install a fireplace doors or seal the opening diy.
At night- close the windows with heavy curtains to stop radiational cooling through the glass.
Ideally curtains should be floor to ceiling and covering the sides- look up wrap around “umbra” curtain rods to get an idea.
Open curtains in am- to let the glass dry out.
Remove the closet doors and install light semi transparent curtains- so no mold forms as it lets light in and air circulation is much better
In short minimizing sources of vapor in the air first and increasing air circulation could help with dehumidification
I would get a wood stove first vs dehumidifier- perfect for your climate- will heat and dry out the space, no noise, could be less expensive and pleasant
Long term your house may need air sealing: look it up. Only after that - insulation.
I doubt this is the problem. House is only 17 years old.
Very few builders know why it is needed and how to air-seal properly.
Even less so- the builders actually do it.
It is inexpensive, but too tedious, time consuming and the customer will never see it- so they don’t bother...
There are a couple of new houses were/are being build/ remodeled with addition - expensive houses in an expensive part of the country/ town around me No air sealing whatsoever was/ are being done!
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