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I could live in 500 square feet of "house", just give me another 500 sq.ft. for kitchen+pantry, an attached 3-car garage, and a separate 2000sq ft of heated workshop (so my cars don't get covered in metal shavings and sawdust)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3
One big item that's not discussed is that these kinds of houses are not self-sufficient. So, for example, there's no place for a washer-dryer, so you're trucking to a laundromat. There may not even be room for a tub or shower, so you have to shower at a gym, workplace, etc.
Freestanding houses are expensive, and playing games with the way real estate ownership is handled does nothing to reduce that expense.
For those who want to address homelessness, they should be designing tiny apartments and tiny condos, not tiny houses.
I could live in 500 square feet of "house", just give me another 500 sq.ft. for kitchen+pantry, an attached 3-car garage, and a separate 2000sq ft of heated workshop (so my cars don't get covered in metal shavings and sawdust)...
Freestanding houses are expensive, and playing games with the way real estate ownership is handled does nothing to reduce that expense.
For those who want to address homelessness, they should be designing tiny apartments and tiny condos, not tiny houses.
My very first owned home was only 400 sq. ft. Everyone called it "The Doll House". It had one bedroom, a living room, nice-sized kitchen, pantry, bathroom, and a porch with washer and dryer. The lot was small too, only 3,000 sq. ft. The location was 2 blocks each from the river and a bay, so it was in a perfect spot for walking to the water for relaxation.
Keep in mind that people live in tiny homes in other areas of the World I lived in a spacious 2br apartment in Japan that was a whopping 470sqft. It had a washing machine. Hot water was not hooked to it but I had a sink adjacent with a hair wash attachment so I could put hot water in that way. I had a tankless water heater with a panel to adjust the water temperature and a shower/bath room that could be heated to dry clothes if needed separate from the rest of the house. I also had a 2-burner induction stove, reasonably sized fridge, and microwave.
The main issue we have in the US is most furniture is scaled big and bigger. If you have smaller furniture, it all works fine.
In many cases this is true. I abhor most furniture stores because the stuff is so needlessly, bloaty big. People diss IKEA but the concept of simple, relatively plain furniture that is big enough and not more is worth emulating more.
Another important factor is whether some furniture can serve more than one purpose and thus save space. The old ideas such as trundle beds, bunk beds, Murphy beds, and fold-out couchbeds could use more implementation, or at least consideration.
Anything that can do double-duty or triple-duty saves space. That’s how RVs and boats can be lived in.
Items one and two don't seem to surprising but I was sttracted to #3. I wonder about the phrase "first in, first out" for I might have said, for things only come in if something gets tossed out as "dead man's boots".....but I guess I'm a classic.
Of course, it might be something bigger than that in that I find that most people have only a specialist point of view, that being a generalist has no concept for them whatsoever. My stand point, in the world of things, is to have enough different things to be able to do any job.
But then again....thoughts?
Get rid of the "crap" you don't need, and spend/save money on things you truly want.
Does anyone really need 20 pairs of shoes or sneakers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3
One big item that's not discussed is that these kinds of houses are not self-sufficient. So, for example, there's no place for a washer-dryer, so you're trucking to a laundromat. There may not even be room for a tub or shower, so you have to shower at a gym, workplace, etc. You can't store more than the minimum amount of supplies/food/etc., so you're going to have to add a shed. Because it's sitting on wheels, you are limited in your water and sewer hookups - water lines and sewer lines need the house not to move. Most of the stories of tiny houses end up admitting that they've put the tiny house in a friend or relative's yard and use that "big" house for things like the big load of laundry, storing your extra toilet paper, winter clothes, etc.
It's not really a house, it's a wooden tent, or a more-developed travel trailer.
RVs and fifth wheels have been doing the tiny home thing for years, and they're much more efficient at it. And.... they can actually go down the road and travel, which tiny homes are not set up to do.
Our 25' travel trailer (202 sf) is now my temporary home office, and we love camping in it, but I can't imagine living in a house even twice as big. Not that we're claustrophobic, but we just like elbow room. We don't really need our 3,000 sf any more with the kids on their own but too much space is far better than too little for us. When we retire and downsize it will still be at least 2,000 sf.
For me even 2,000 sqft would be too big. I laugh at those McMansion owners when they boaster about their cathedral ceilings. Don't cry when you get those large heating & cooling bills.
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Originally Posted by pikabike
From one extreme to the other...
There are these things known simply as “small homes” (or sometimes disparagingly marketed as “starter homes”). They have all the standard house features, must comply with standard codes, have foundations, and can be made as charming as any tiny house.
Small houses abounded up till about the 90s. Square footage between 700 and 1600, something in that range. Families lived in them, not just singles or couples.
Nobody gets excited by them. Why? Because they are not a new and weird fad?
I prefer them over those god awful McMansions. 700 to 2000sqft is just right. Any smaller to cramped, any larger has wasted space.
Yes, but the point is that it IS possible to have sustainable living in small spaces. In Japan they have lots of tiny loft apartments that have everything within about 200-300sqft. My sister lived in one of these and the basics of that style could easily be converted to a tiny home. There are a few tiny home communities now, as some have pointed out. It just hasn’t really caught on yet.
Unfortunately the trend now is more to have a modified ADU with people going into the main house to do whatever it is they want to do.
In Japan, they also had the Type 61 tank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_61_(tank) . Why should the Japanese build their own tank when they were given American tanks? Because the Type 61 was built to fit the smaller size of their people.
Different sized people, different society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk4042C
Get rid of the "crap" you don't need, and spend/save money on things you truly want.
Does anyone really need 20 pairs of shoes or sneakers?
Yes.
It is, however, 20 pairs of boots and right now, there is a practical reason. I have 2 pairs sitting in my car waiting to go to to the cobbler to be resoled. With businesses closed and travel restricted due to the C virus crisis, they sit out of use and I am not forced to continue the damage on them.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 06-30-2020 at 06:01 AM..
In Japan, they also had the Type 61 tank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_61_(tank) . Why should the Japanese build their own tank when they were given American tanks? Because the Type 61 was built to fit the smaller size of their people.
Different sized people, different society.
Yes.
It is, however, 20 pairs of boots and right now, there is a practical reason. I have 2 pairs sitting in my car waiting to go to to the cobbler to be resoled. With businesses closed and travel restricted due to the C virus crisis, they sit out of use and I am not forced to continue the damage on them.
What are you talking about? Americans had much smaller homes until recently. The average size of a home in 1920 was about 1050 square feet. Now it is about 2600 square feet. People were having about 2-3 kids in the 1920s, not so much different than now. People in NYC live in small spaces and aren’t tiny people. People make do with the space they have available.
What are you talking about? Americans had much smaller homes until recently. The average size of a home in 1920 was about 1050 square feet. Now it is about 2600 square feet. People were having about 2-3 kids in the 1920s, not so much different than now. People in NYC live in small spaces and aren’t tiny people. People make do with the space they have available.
And Americans vary a lot in size anyway. Not everyone is 6’4” or 300 lbs.
It is, however, 20 pairs of boots and right now, there is a practical reason. I have 2 pairs sitting in my car waiting to go to to the cobbler to be resoled. With businesses closed and travel restricted due to the C virus crisis, they sit out of use and I am not forced to continue the damage on them.
Which leaves you with 18 pairs of active footwear. Nobody NEEDS 18 pairs of footwear.
The only grossly oversized furniture I can think of is the ever-expanding sectional, which sometimes reaches proportions of modular absurdity. That and perhaps full wall entertainment consoles.
I've lived in a couple of converted "kitchen" trailers...mostly kitchen (with generous cabinetry that can be multi-purpose) with a small open area for a twin bed and an area curtained off for a shower stall, toilet and sink. It worked OK. Would have wanted at least a carport to make it better. Extending the life of all the non-renewable resources that make up a car makes sense.
The smallest house I ever rented was 400 sq ft. Had everything you really needed for a basic day-to-day life.
The biggest house I've ever owned was a little more than 1900 sq ft. After living in it for a couple of years realized that half of it was simply climate-controlled storage for stuff I didn't look at for months at a time. Downsized and sold it because it was TOO big.
My current house is just over 1200 sq ft. And there's an 8'x4'x8' bird aviary set up in it. That reduces the useable living space even further. It does have pretty good closets/pantry which IMHO makes all the difference. There are everyday supplies and necessary functional things you need to put somewhere out of the way while not actively using them. Except for the bathrooms...that's the big disconnect. Tiny sink cabinetry and no medicine cabinets. No place for the little easily-misplaced personal care stuff, paper goods, cleaning supplies. I don't even own more than the basics but they still don't function very well. I'll be installing reset cabinets to solve that problem. In this house if there aren't guests, I still don't use one of the rooms except to store stuff that isn't needed from day to day. Family memorabilia I do value and some artwork that can't hang on other walls. One room has a computer workspace and space for financial records, books, media, smaller hand tools and gadgets, seasonal supplies, etc. The only addition I want is a garage to help maintain the car, not need to chip ice/shovel snow off of it half the year, keep car-related supplies, garden and other larger tools, outdoor recreational gear, and chemicals you don't want in your living space.
Last edited by Parnassia; 06-30-2020 at 11:37 AM..
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