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Our old air-conditioning unit at our small rental house needs a lot of repairs. Since uses the old fashioned kind of freon, I was advised to replace system. Home is 1200 sf + a finished 500sf basement area. This home is one we may occupy ourselves in future, so don't want to put in the cheapest system out there if there is one more efficent, more reliable, and quieter.
First bid came in for a non-energy star rated system, that has 72 decibel rating, single stage, and a SEER efficiency of 13, made by Carrier brand.
Other brands installed by our local a/c mechanical companies are: Trane, Lennox, and Amana.
Compressor we found was ruined by previous owner's dog pee. I had no idea that could happen - so make sure to place a fence around your compressor if have a dog. The acid ate right through the corner.
We are also building a deck, that has to go right next to the compressor, so are concerned about decibel levels. What decibel level is good for a compressor if sitting outside next to the unit?
Since in Michigan, dehumidifying feature on the unit would be very useful. Carrier brand has 3 types: Optimal, True and Enhanced. Ugh - no explanation what the difference is on their website.
The required new coil would go into an existing furnace system made by Gibson.
Anyone know more about the importance of SEER ratings, energy star qualified, decibel levels, and dehumidifying features? Also, single stage, vs 2-stage, vs variable operation - has anyone upgraded from single stage to 2-stage or variable and noticed a difference? Appreciate suggestions as to what brands are good, and which features are important, and which are most reliable, quiet, and efficient.
Last edited by PacificaViews; 08-03-2020 at 12:50 PM..
#1 most important quality - a good installer who does a good installation
#2 - everything else
How expensive is your electric in cents per kWh, and how many months is the AC used per year?
With respect to Carrier's "type", it's more like "hype". What's more relevant is single vs. 2 stage vs. variable.
I've had a Trane XV18 variable speed system in Florida. It worked great, but was $$$. It was also used nearly 12 months of the year, so 18 SEER variable made sense. The communicating features and smart thermostat had a few bugs that needed working out though.
Now in the Atlanta suburbs I did a replacement with a single stage. Also works great, but much cheaper. Dehumidification is still fine, averaging 43-50% upstairs (where the unit was replaced). I went with the Heil HSA6 (69db 16 SEER) - just replaced the condenser and the coil for a little over $4K. But my installer was OK with doing this; some contractors want to replace everything at once. Mine supports communicating thermostats but we had it wired for traditional as my existing Carrier furnace doesn't have any "smarts" built into it. Maybe someday when I need to replace it I will enable communicating features.
I did the math and even where I was there was no real payback to going with a much higher SEER rating (my old unit was 10 SEER). 16 SEER single stage seems to occupy a sweet spot. Much more efficient and quiet than old units but not too much more expensive than an entry level model. It's also energy star so it qualifies for a tax rebate.
Once you get to around 70db the only way you will realistically get quieter is if you go with a variable speed condenser model. Even then, when it's running 100% it will still be as loud as a premium single stage model - there's no magic in what it does when it runs at full speed.
Once you get to around 70db the only way you will realistically get quieter is if you go with a variable speed condenser model. Even then, when it's running 100% it will still be as loud as a premium single stage model - there's no magic in what it does when it runs at full speed.
Thanks so much for sharing what systems worked for you in FL and GA.
Have been busy checking with all the "good" installers here. Bids already vary widely, as expected. Whole furnace and A/C system is out of warranty (2006-2008) - a mish-mash: Gibson furnace, Payne condenser, Trion Air Bear Right Angle, Lux thermostat. Whole system looks wonky, and it is all placed directly on basement floor, with no elevating at all. One part is wrapped in tin foil? If ever a flood in basement, the equipment appears would get damaged the way installed now. Our other home has all equipment on a 6" riser.
So first bid includes keeping the 2008 Gibson furnace, adding into it a new coil, and replacing current Payne condenser with a Carrier single stage 13 seer 2-ton unit for $3500. Do like that the 2-ton condenser is a smaller 24" box than what we currently have.
Second bid involves scraping whole out-of-warranty mish-mash system and getting all new 98.7% efficiency Lennox with a giant 47" high 2-ton variable speed 25 seer rated, and supposedly very quiet. We would see the unit right out our living room window - it's so big at 4ft height. Like the idea of having a warranty on everything, by replacing everything, but bid was $11K, and the outside unit is just too enormous. I would not know how to camouflage it. I was hoping for a smaller condenser than our 30x30x34in high Payne we currently have.
On to bid #3...looking into Trane system next. Only a few brands to choose from these days, and some do not have authorized installers near us such as Rheem.
I certainly wouldn’t base a system on the decibel rating for the condenser unit!
Check with your local power company for rebates based on SEER ratings- you maybe able to increase your SEER for the same money as a 13 (a higher SEER usually means a lower decibel rating with the condenser.
With the age of your system and it’s Frankenstein anatomy, I’d replace all.
I certainly wouldn’t base a system on the decibel rating for the condenser unit!
Check with your local power company for rebates based on SEER ratings- you maybe able to increase your SEER for the same money as a 13 (a higher SEER usually means a lower decibel rating with the condenser.
With the age of your system and it’s Frankenstein anatomy, I’d replace all.
I agree with replacing all, but I would get another bid because $11K is too much. I'd bet a decent system shouldn't cost more than around $7K if the ductwork is in good shape.
While a decibel rating isn't everything it's relevant. Of course much of the noise reduction is done via a compressor blanket nowadays - that's how mine got down to 69db. But as my unit is outside the bedroom window 69db is much better than the old 82db.
I recently went through needing my AC (10 year old Trane builder grade) replaced. To replace furnace (gas), blower, compressor, AC coil, quotes were running about $6,500. Replace AC (compressor and AC coil only) about $3,600 to 4,000.00. I did AC only.
I agree with replacing all, but I would get another bid because $11K is too much. I'd bet a decent system shouldn't cost more than around $7K if the ductwork is in good shape.
johngolf, what brand you go with 2nd time. Trane again?
Decided going the full replacement route. That way no excuses from installer if anything goes wrong.
Did learn something today - well, actually knew, but reinforced...
Call everyone in the book for bids. Turned out a small local company knew all about this system, had worked on it a year ago. I said, "why did you guys not leave a sticker on it? you lost business. i called the company whose sticker was on the system." Guess they assumed that owners would call them again, only they didn't consider possiblity of new owners who didn't know they ever serviced it.
Anyway, they are coming out to give a bid on a Daikin system - that has 12 year parts and labor warranty. That's a bit better than the 10 year parts, 5 year labor warranties with some of the other brands.
johngolf, what brand you go with 2nd time. Trane again?
Decided going the full replacement route. That way no excuses from installer if anything goes wrong.
Did learn something today - well, actually knew, but reinforced...
Call everyone in the book for bids. Turned out a small local company knew all about this system, had worked on it a year ago. I said, "why did you guys not leave a sticker on it? you lost business. i called the company whose sticker was on the system." Guess they assumed that owners would call them again, only they didn't consider possiblity of new owners who didn't know they ever serviced it.
Anyway, they are coming out to give a bid on a Daikin system - that has 12 year parts and labor warranty. That's a bit better than the 10 year parts, 5 year labor warranties with some of the other brands.
Note that Daikin owns Amana and Goodman, and often models are the same under the covers. Report back what model they recommend.
I went with Rheem based on it was the suggested brand by an HVAC Company I trust. Rheem and Ruud are owned by the same company. Rheem started making residential HVAC equipment in 1970. I understand them to manufacturer in the US.
Be Careful. Most warranties are not parts and labor for the life of the warranty. Most will be labor for 1-2 years and parts for 10-12 years. Many people confuse this. Double check this. Pay close attention. Labor is the killer.
Also, check with your local utility company to see if they are offering rebates for replacements (don't rely on your contractor to know).
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