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Old 09-02-2020, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
15,200 posts, read 11,001,320 times
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[Filed for future use]
Way back in time, there was a cookware called Air Core, that was basically a double wall thermos bottle. Once it came up to temperature, it would slowly cool down, cooking all the while with no more heat input.
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Core-Cook.../dp/B0006807RM
(Caveat, over time, owners experienced EXPLOSIONS, as the pans self destructed.)
. . . . .
Why use insulated pans?

One of my pet peeves with stoves, is the WASTE HEAT, which is a double hassle in hot climates.

Ideally, an induction element would heat the INSULATED PAN and nothing more, and thus minimize waste heat.
Save energy - save on A/C.
. . . . . .

Coincidentally, you can experiment with 'thermos bottle' cookery with wide mouth jars currently available. Yes, it does work, as long as you pre-heat the receptacle with boiling water. Then add in the various ingredients, seal it up and enjoy a cooked meal hours later.
https://theboatgalley.com/thermos-cooking/
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Old 09-02-2020, 06:41 PM
 
625 posts, read 813,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Don't forget that the upper surface will get very hot due to heat transfer from the hot pan, and when you move that hot pan off it'll still be almost the same temp. as the pan. Invisibly.
Are you saying when the pot is removed, the cooktop stays hot? I think I read that when the pot is removed, the cooktop cools down immediately, unlike electric.
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Old 09-02-2020, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
28,164 posts, read 18,507,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpc691 View Post
No gas available here. When we remodeled our kitchen, I refused to stay with regular electric, so it was either induction or plumb the house for LP, including burying a tank in the yard ($$$). Went with a Bosch induction cooktop, All Clad pans, and Tfal Professional nonstick. While I wouldn’t recommend Bosch appliances in general, the cooktop has been great. As someone else said, I don’t really care if water boils in 3 minutes or 6, but I think the low temperature control is the real advantage. When you set it on low, it’s on low all the time. A regular electric cooktop is 900 degrees for 30 seconds, then off for 30 seconds...what I call “low burn”. I use cheap parchment under the pans, and after 5 yrs of heavy use and below-average cleaning diligence, the cooktop literally looks brand new. The All Clad is great, the Tfal Professional so-so (still looking for that magical induction compatible nonstick). If you cook a lot, I would think a hood is almost required.
Bosch dishwashers are great, IME.

I actually use the boost feature on my Bosch induction cooktop almost daily when I boil water for tea in the afternoon. I gave my electric teakettle away. I like boiling water for pasta using the boost function, as well.

I also like how quickly it heats up my steel wok.

But I really like how it heats my chef’s pan prior to sauteeing. And it holds the heat steadily.

I don’t really baby my cooktop, and it looks fine after about 7 years of use.

Almost every user of induction prefers it to other cooking methods. That should tell doubters something.
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Old 09-02-2020, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Jollyville, TX
4,409 posts, read 10,115,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelotus View Post
Are you saying when the pot is removed, the cooktop stays hot? I think I read that when the pot is removed, the cooktop cools down immediately, unlike electric.
It retains the heat transfer from the pot. It’s not hot the same way an electric stove would be hot, but it's enough that you wouldn’t want to keep your hand on it. Ask me how I know.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:20 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 1,025,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Almost every user of induction prefers it to other cooking methods. That should tell doubters something.
And when recommendations for any major appliance are solicited, it's interesting how nearly every single person loves... the brand and model they have.

Selection bias coupled with sunk cost bias. It's... off the charts in things like consumer polling.

My question is this: if induction is so superior, why has it remained an utterly marginal market for well over fifty years, until the last few years, when (gosh! surprise!) makers started creating and pushing new product lines?

Still not knocking it. Just wary, by very long experience, of how either completely brand new ideas and very old ones suddenly become consumer darlings, defended to the death by their buyers.
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Old 09-02-2020, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Jollyville, TX
4,409 posts, read 10,115,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
And when recommendations for any major appliance are solicited, it's interesting how nearly every single person loves... the brand and model they have.

Selection bias coupled with sunk cost bias. It's... off the charts in things like consumer polling.

My question is this: if induction is so superior, why has it remained an utterly marginal market for well over fifty years, until the last few years, when (gosh! surprise!) makers started creating and pushing new product lines?

Still not knocking it. Just wary, by very long experience, of how either completely brand new ideas and very old ones suddenly become consumer darlings, defended to the death by their buyers.
It’s still fairly new In the US market and twice the price as a regular electric stove so not everyone feels the need to get the latest technology. A lot of people still don’t even know they exist. I researched brands and ended up with an LG because it was the cheapest one that didn’t get horrible reviews. I don’t love it, but I do love cooking on induction. I’m 63 and have been cooking on mostly electric for 50 years And I will never go back.
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
28,164 posts, read 18,507,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
And when recommendations for any major appliance are solicited, it's interesting how nearly every single person loves... the brand and model they have.

Selection bias coupled with sunk cost bias. It's... off the charts in things like consumer polling.

My question is this: if induction is so superior, why has it remained an utterly marginal market for well over fifty years, until the last few years, when (gosh! surprise!) makers started creating and pushing new product lines?

Still not knocking it. Just wary, by very long experience, of how either completely brand new ideas and very old ones suddenly become consumer darlings, defended to the death by their buyers.
Induction has been in use in Europe for a lot longer than it has been in the States. I do not know what took it so long to get here.

I think you want to argue about this. I am not going to argue with you. But I can tell you this: I have cooked on gas, electric coils, cast iron burners, electric glass top, and induction. The induction is the best of all of them, as far as I am concerned. I’ve had my cooktop for 7 or so years, and it has performed well. I chose it. No one convinced me, or even tried to sell it to me.

But I am not knocking gas. Gas would be my second choice. If I had had a gas cooktop, I would have kept it, and added an induction burner for a fast boil.
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Old 09-03-2020, 11:47 AM
 
3,071 posts, read 1,025,772 times
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Originally Posted by silibran View Post
Induction has been in use in Europe for a lot longer than it has been in the States. I do not know what took it so long to get here.

I think you want to argue about this. I am not going to argue with you.
Not really arguing. Emphasizing two points that I think are relevant to the discussion:

First, there is no good case that induction is superior to gas, and not much better than calrod electric. (I think ceramic/electric cooktops are... bad tech in all ways.) It's different, yes. It has some advantages that are modest (the cooktop still gets hot enough to burn, and boiling water faster is simply not a major feature except for some agitated tea-drinkers). If you want it, install it, and upgrade your cookware as needed, and may peace and blessings be upon you. But shouting its superiority to the skies is... misplaced.

Second, the tech has been around for a hundred years and was developed into commercially-viable units after WWII. It's had fifty or sixty years to displace, if not gas, then all other forms of electric, and (in quantity production) at much the same cost/price point. It hasn't, not even in Europe. I am the very last person who would argue that superior tech always wins out, but the market and other forces for kitchen appliances should have forced it to a much wider market over two generations... if it was truly superior. It didn't even catch on with fairly common availability from the 1970s on. No, it's only caught on in very recent years... because makers suddenly discovered a 'premium' niche they could promote on a bunch of spurious points and corner more (high-profit) market share with it.

Anyone considering induction should keep both points in mind... especially those who pride themselves in "never paying attention to advertising" and "always making their own good, sound purchasing decisions." Induction is different but not really much better. It works fine if you accept the cookware limitations. But it's still rather expensive, can be shown to be something of a marketing/media driven fad, and many buyers may be a lot happier with a good gas cooktop instead.

End of 'argument.'
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Jollyville, TX
4,409 posts, read 10,115,645 times
Reputation: 5730
If I had gas I wouldn’t give a second thought to induction but anyone who has ever cooked on a regular electric stove (smooth top or regular) will tell you that induction is way better. Seriously, it has improved my cooking because I no longer have to worry about it getting too hot or burning food on the top of the stove. I don’t know why you feel the need to be so contrary about it. For those of us who can afford the extra cost of the induction appliance and the new cookware, why would you care?
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Old 09-03-2020, 12:13 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 1,025,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlady View Post
If I had gas I wouldn’t give a second thought to induction but anyone who has ever cooked on a regular electric stove (smooth top or regular) will tell you that induction is way better.
No argument. I thoroughly despise electric cooktops but will live with a calrod unit over the half-assed, half-baked, false-convenience ceramic units.

Quote:
Seriously, it has improved my cooking because I no longer have to worry about it getting too hot or burning food on the top of the stove.
I'm quite sure you can burn food on an induction burner. Just as you can on a good-quality calrod burner with decent temp control.

And I am not sure that the safety difference between a calrod (or ceramic) burner and an induction one is any major factor unless you are very clumsy or forgetful. An induction burner gets hot enough to inflict serious injury; perhaps less than a heating-element type and with somewhat quicker cool-down, but again, it's such a minor advantage that it doesn't really justify the choice except on a personal preference level.

To once again attempt to make it clear, I have nothing against induction or those who choose it... but I do reject the (largely marketing and media driven) hoopla that it is SO much better and SO much more precise and SO much safer and SO much more efficient (that you should tear out your Wolf unit and replace it).

Quote:
I don’t know why you feel the need to be so contrary about it.
Because there's nothing that says I have to nod and smile at every opinion here, as if it's a tea or a kindergarten circle? Some fairly strong opinions about the sheer wonderfulness of induction have been expressed; I have some pins to stick in those balloons, as both a cook and someone professionally engaged in consumer economics.

Quote:
For those of us who can afford the extra cost of the induction appliance and the new cookware, why would you care?
You don't really want a full answer to that. Here's a short form: that some people are wealthy and generally careless enough to indulge in subtle but costly 'advantages' is one thing. That a rising tide of marketing is convincing people of less means, perhaps insufficient means, to switch to this boon from heaven at an inflated and unnecessary cost is another. I'm not addressing anyone who throws money at every detail of their house, largely to impress the Cabots next door and their many entertainment visitors. I'm addressing those who might have drunk a few sips too many of the home-magazine, reno-show, cooking-program kool-aid about the vast, incredible superiority of this — costly and really not much superior — option.

Glad you like yours and could afford it.
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