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People use architectural shingles if they care mostly about aesthetics, but most people who care about longevity are using metal these days. Even with metal though, the paint finish will eventually fade.
An Irish friend of mine is (was, he is retired) a builder of homes in Ireland. He visited the US several times and was always amazed at the way Americans built homes especially stick built wood homes. He said brick is one thing but the stick built was poor construction. He also said our roofing materials (basically asphalt shingles) was cheap and needed replacing to often. But there were things he liked about American homes. Good water pressure, good sewage, good electrical, good HVAC, bigger rooms, plenty of bathrooms, garage with direct entry to the house.
He always said great homes to live in but cheap construction.
Same thing.
Did you ask your Irish friend how much it would cost to buy or build a 2500 sq. ft. house in a metro area of 5+ million people in Ireland? In the US, it's probably around $200/sq.ft. right now, or $500,000. Less in some areas, and more or less, of course, depending on the level of finish. Try THAT in Ireland!
Does it ever occur to the "US housing is so horrible because it uses cheap and cheerful materials and some of them have to be replaced within your lifetime" crowd that not everyone drives a Rolls-Royce? Not everyone dresses only in bespoke suits and handmade shoes. For most of us, the Toyota, the Dockers, and the Nike tennis shoes do the job well enough.
An Irish friend of mine is (was, he is retired) a builder of homes in Ireland. He visited the US several times and was always amazed at the way Americans built homes especially stick built wood homes. He said brick is one thing but the stick built was poor construction. He also said our roofing materials (basically asphalt shingles) was cheap and needed replacing to often. But there were things he liked about American homes. Good water pressure, good sewage, good electrical, good HVAC, bigger rooms, plenty of bathrooms, garage with direct entry to the house.
He always said great homes to live in but cheap construction.
I always hear that and honestly, it bewilders me.
My friends live in a new home.
My home is 60 years old.
My brother lives in a home that's 100 years old.
My Grandmother lived in a home that was built in the 1850's.
They are all built with roughly the same methods; dimensional lumber framing.
What kind of longevity do we need before it's no longer "poorly built?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover
People use architectural shingles if they care mostly about aesthetics, but most people who care about longevity are using metal these days. Even with metal though, the paint finish will eventually fade.
Yeah, the metal roofs are where its at as far as I'm concerned. There are a few of them in my neighborhood.
They probably will fade but who cares? Everything eventually fades.
Did you ask your Irish friend how much it would cost to buy or build a 2500 sq. ft. house in a metro area of 5+ million people in Ireland? In the US, it's probably around $200/sq.ft. right now, or $500,000. Less in some areas, and more or less, of course, depending on the level of finish. Try THAT in Ireland!
Does it ever occur to the "US housing is so horrible because it uses cheap and cheerful materials and some of them have to be replaced within your lifetime" crowd that not everyone drives a Rolls-Royce? Not everyone dresses only in bespoke suits and handmade shoes. For most of us, the Toyota, the Dockers, and the Nike tennis shoes do the job well enough.
Also, we tend to move about every 7 years.
I've lived in older homes (in one case the home was well over 100 years old) and there are pros and cons to every situation (I've also lived in brand new construction, a custom built home and everything in between). The thing about many older homes, in Europe and in the US, is something called "functional obsolescence." For instance, in Germany I lived in a very "well built" home, built in the 1920s. However, it had one bathroom in about 2500 square feet. No closets. Weird floor plan. Low ceilings. But hey, it was "well built!"
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Tile roofs look silly on the typical American homes. They are used in warmer climate areas where they build Spanish style homes. There are many of them, for example, in Southern California, Las Vegas, Arizona and New Mexico. Here in the Northwest US Cedar shakes were popular, with the big lumber industry here until the 1980s. Now most people are switching to composition shingles because the logging restrictions for environmental reasons has raised the price way up, and insurance costs have gone up due to the fire hazards.
American homes have cheap everything. For the past three years, me and my family had to move 5 times, and every single time there was a nightmarish issue with light weight wood construction. 3 times we ended up in a house with super loud unbearable structural noises coming from walls and ceiling. Impossible to sleep and unbearable to live with. Other countries (even 3rd world countries) don't build their shed or barns as cheap and as flimsy as we build our expensive homes/ The truth is that light weight wood frame construction has become the new norm in America because the builders can triple the already tripped profit by selling cardboard boxes instead of an actual house made with brick or concrete. Homes in US have the appearance of having brick walls; however, these are just stuck onto the outside of the plywood walls giving a false sense of quality and strength. It is understandable that using flimsy wood is cheaper than using brick or concrete, but this is not really evidenced by the prices of houses, since even mulch-million dollar houses are being built using the same cheap flimsy plywood, insulation, shabby roofing material as the cheaper houses. compromised acoustics is a MAJOR issue with light weight wood construction along with other problems like fire and wind issues, structural issues, low durability, low thermal mass, shrinkage, high maintenance cost, leaky roofs, termite damage, or rotten wood, and so forth and so on.The reason? Consumers put up with it, and they even fight to promote flimsy wood chip construction. The poor quality of American housing is quite frankly DISGRACEFUL. It's shocking how the US seems to have completely ignored the three little pigs tale Every kid knows that the brick house is literally the only one that survives
American homes have cheap everything. For the past three years, me and my family had to move 5 times, and every single time there was a nightmarish issue with light weight wood construction. 3 times we ended up in a house with super loud unbearable structural noises coming from walls and ceiling. Impossible to sleep and unbearable to live with. Other countries (even 3rd world countries) don't build their shed or barns as cheap and as flimsy as we build our expensive homes/ The truth is that light weight wood frame construction has become the new norm in America because the builders can triple the already tripped profit by selling cardboard boxes instead of an actual house made with brick or concrete. Homes in US have the appearance of having brick walls; however, these are just stuck onto the outside of the plywood walls giving a false sense of quality and strength. It is understandable that using flimsy wood is cheaper than using brick or concrete, but this is not really evidenced by the prices of houses, since even mulch-million dollar houses are being built using the same cheap flimsy plywood, insulation, shabby roofing material as the cheaper houses. compromised acoustics is a MAJOR issue with light weight wood construction along with other problems like fire and wind issues, structural issues, low durability, low thermal mass, shrinkage, high maintenance cost, leaky roofs, termite damage, or rotten wood, and so forth and so on.The reason? Consumers put up with it, and they even fight to promote flimsy wood chip construction. The poor quality of American housing is quite frankly DISGRACEFUL. It's shocking how the US seems to have completely ignored the three little pigs tale Every kid knows that the brick house is literally the only one that survives.
What a silly and ignorant rant. First off, if you moved five times in three years because of ambient noise, it sounds like you're either hypersensitive or just bad at choosing a house. That is not normal.
One reason that people like wood frame houses is that they are easy and inexpensive to renovate. Sure, in Europe you can buy a concrete or brick house that will last forever, but you had better like it just the way it is because it will cost an arm and a leg to change anything. My brother-in-law in Germany paid over 100,000 Euros just to raise the roof of a loft from slanting to horizontal and add a tiny bathroom to an existing space.
Brick houses are "literally the only ones that survive" until an earthquake takes them out. You can't build a brick house where I live even if you want to. It's not allowed. They are unsafe. They will kill you.
NOISES, NOISES, AND MORE LOUD BANGING NOISES. Welcome to wood chip American construction, flimsy like house of cards, cheap as if you are living in a cardboard box. With house prices skyrocketing across the nation, it doesn't even make sense to build such flimsy yet expensive structures. Since it's gotten colder (around 50s or mid 40s at nights) we hear very scary loud banging and pounding once every hour, as if someone is karate chopping the board, and bombing the living daylights out of the house. It's getting worse, as if that's possible. And some make "IGNORANT" comments by suggesting that the problem isn't woodchip construction, but a "poltergeist", or a "ghost" or "being hypersensitive" - not to mention that one must be deaf not to hear these loud noises. The structural engineer jumped out of his skin hearing one of them the other day. Some even resort to personal attacks by making "nasty and mean comments" because me and my family have simply experienced this issue in three different homes
But the real question the "hecklers" simply don't want to answer is "Why does the richest nation in the world build such shoddy expensive houses this cheap"? The poor quality of American housing is quite frankly DISGRACEFUL. Woodchip homes costing over a million dollar, Really America? Fine for a shed, barn, or temporary dwelling, not a house. Asphalt roof shingles? Again, not acceptable for a human dwelling- a bird/dog, or pig house maybe. Even the 3rd pig knew better to build a solid home:
The rest of the civilized world would never allow their homes to be built like this. They build their homes from concrete/masonry. In America we build our homes, not even out of solid wood, but drywall/plywood which seems to be basically compressed wood chips. Even third world countries build their homes far more solidly and durably than we do, with brick or concrete. It made sense to build such low quality homes when an average home used to cost 70K. Now with increase in house prices and lumber, it doesn't even make sense to build such pile of rubbish called homes. Fear mongering tactics only work on those who are not enlightened. Having masters in civil engineering, having lived in many different countries (those with long history of strong earthquakes), I understand a lot more about loads and structures, and how well built concrete structures can be a LOT SAFER than these wood chip homes when it comes to earthquake.
The poor soundproofing and compromised acoustics of many of these wood chip houses are just HIDEOUS.
Having masters in civil engineering and based on my recent conversation with multiple structural engineers and inspectors, these loud structural noises are very COMMON in some of these wood chip homes, two of them told me they recently saw a $2million home and a $1.5 million home having the same problem and the solution is removing everything to the studs - VERY expensive repairs. Just because you haven't experience it, it doesn't man they don't exist.
The contractors don't even bother to screw these flimsy wood chip houses together. Out of convenience, they just use staple guns to nail flimsy plywood to weak beams. Screwed together structures generally are so tightly fastened under pressure that no movement occurs. Yet over a period of time, in nailed together structures (especially in hot dry climates), the structure shrinks and drys out. I believe this causes gaps to occur between structural components of house (trusses, walls, ceiling). The nails over time become pushed out and the structure loosens by the repetitive thermal movements, eventually a gap forms providing room for sudden snapping/banging movement. Ye, I know, having to go through this nightmare day and night is so much FUN! So much fun that you can't even get a solid night of sleep in these expensive woodchip homes. And some with vested interest in promoting woodchip construction are trying so desperately to normalize these LOUD SCARY noises by "calling you hypersensitive", or "accusing you of lying" or suggesting that these loud continuous noises are just "ambient noises", or that "it's just your problem and you made some bad choices". UNBELIEVABLE
I live in a wood frame house in a hot, dry climate and so do 90% of the people I know. We have not experienced "scary banging noises" ever, much less hourly, nor has anyone we know reported them. Sorry, but it just seems statistically unlikely to hear mysterious, intolerable loud banging noises in three houses in a row. And if you have, the obvious next question is, if you've had the same experience three times, why haven't you chosen a different type of house to live in? You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
In fact, why don't you go right ahead and build yourself a brick house, since you think they're so great, and just hope it doesn't collapse on top of you next time there is a tremor.
All the houses I've lived in have been different (different floorplan, builder, location, year built, etc, etc), the only thing that was the same was the woodchip construction, which is 99.99% homes on the west coast. The issue with loud structural noises in wood chip home is that the house will pass inspection, There is NO WAY to know if a house makes these unbearable noises, unless you sleep there for a week and most sellers do not disclose, and there is NO WAY to know. So those who question my choices and how I didn't know about these unbearable loud banging noises before moving to my recent homes, have no idea what they are talking about.
Also Just because you never heard these loud scary structural noises, it doesn't mean they don't exist. Some woodchip homes (50% or more) may not have them, at least as of right now. Who knows about the future? Just because your home doesn't make any noises as of right now, it doesn't mean it wouldn't in the future. In my first home, I lived there for 4 years, there were no structural noises whatsoever in the house, very quiet home. The house went absolutely crazy in matter of two weeks. Loud scary structural noises started out of the blue, day and night, I've come across posts by homeowners who've suggested the same thing. Their quiet woodchip home goes suddenly nuts making loud noises day and night and no one has any viable solution other than "putting up with it" or "moving". These are not "ambient" noises as some here are suggesting because they promote an "agenda" or have "ulterior motives", these are very loud continuous structural noises that cannot be muffled, even when you are wearing earplugs.
The truth is that American woodchip houses are just a pile of RUBBISH regardless of their price tags. Smelly rotten houses, swelling floors, ugly designs, cold and wet in winter, creaking, hot and stuffy in summer, miserable to live in. The truth is that light weight wood frame construction has become the new norm in America because the builders can triple the already tripped profit by selling cardboard boxes instead of an actual house made with brick or concrete. Homes in US have the appearance of having brick walls; however, these are just stuck onto the outside of the plywood walls giving a false sense of quality and strength. It is understandable that using flimsy wood is cheaper than using brick or concrete, but this is not really evidenced by the prices of houses, since even mulch-million dollar houses are being built using the same cheap flimsy plywood, insulation, shabby roofing material as the cheaper houses. compromised acoustics is a MAJOR issue with light weight wood construction along with other problems like fire and wind issues, structural issues, low durability, low thermal mass, shrinkage, high maintenance cost, leaky roofs, termite damage, or rotten wood, and so forth and so on.
I have masters in civil engineering, have lived in many different countries (those with long history of strong earthquakes), If you study and understand loads and structures, you will understand how well built concrete structures can be a LOT SAFER than wood chip homes when it comes to earthquake. Most structures in Italy, Peru or Turkey are built with stone and they can withstand some of the strongest earthquakes. There are highrises, banks and commercial/government buildings even in US built with concrete and they can pretty much withstand some of the strongest earthquakes. So it is seriously misleading, deliberately untruthful, and insulting to one's intelligence to suggest that earthquakes are the reason US contractors build 99.9% of residential homes in US out of flimsy plywood/drywall.
The truth is that a poor quality house is a source of incremental revenue for the government and corporations: Home Depot sells materials and tools needed to keep that house standing. Medical conditions caused by molds keep doctors and pharmaceuticals in business. Making room for mice and roaches behind that drywall makes Exterminators and chemical industry rich. Fights between neighbors on unbearable noise through paper-thin walls makes lawyers wealthy, and as if all that wasn't bad enough, and you end up paying more for a single family home not to share walls or ceiling/floor with neighbors, your ceiling and walls will pop, bang and snap so loud that makes you jump out of your skin. All are winners at expense of American consumers while we are distracted and fighting.
Last edited by coolsara; 11-18-2021 at 07:10 PM..
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You can't build a brick house where I live even if you want to. It's not allowed. They are unsafe. They will kill you.
