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Old 05-11-2008, 11:36 PM
 
Location: northern california
380 posts, read 2,345,983 times
Reputation: 149

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A lot of homes we're looking at don't have any patio shade in the backyard despite hot/sunny summers. Those that do, tend to have a pergola or trellis (don't know the proper term) that look like this: Vinyl Pergolas and Pergola Kits

We're wondering if we should go with a traditional trellis, or try a "shade sail" like this: SQUARE SHADE SAIL(sm) - COOL SHADE SAILS. We saw one at a home before and thought it looked great, it has good uv blockage, and appears a lot cheaper.

Anyone know how well those shade sails hold up compared to a pergola? Aesthetically, either would look good on the houses we're interested in. Thanks for any advice.
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:38 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 25,678,240 times
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Default A couple of things you should think about........

First of all your main enemy is going to be the wind, not the sun.

Either of those designs is going to want to fly, if you get any real wind. The Pergola may appear to be very open but there is still a lot of surface area for the wind to work on and generate forces.

Second with the vinyl, you want to be very knowledgeable about the hardware that is used to build the critter. If they are using aluminum screws and glue beware.

I just completed helping a friend repair a vinyl fence that got damaged in a wind storm in the winter. Something like 24 panels, six of them blew out. The main posts were unaffected, failure was in the mounting hardware / brackets / actual fence panels. That vinyl gets very brittle if cold and just snaps. They had used aluminum screws into both the main supporting posts and brackets, they had failed in a sheer mode, totally unsuitable for the application. The glue they use is just about useless. Screwing vinyl to vinyl in a thinwall application is very questionable. We were talking a wind storm of maybe 60 MPH gusts max to cause these type failures. You really have to think about the amount of surface areas that are being affected.

That shade sail surely will be affected by wind. You should note the attachment points are going to have to be very sturdy. They are showing a huge metal post in that pix of the ad. All the hardware will have to be capable of absorbing the forces involved. Hopefully it would be designed / installed for quick removal in case of major storms.

All hardware should be either heavy stainless or galvanized and be able to hack the forces generated.

Shade sail looks interesting for the money. Vinyl can appear to be a nice application but it also has this way of getting a bit grimy over time. Does not clean up all that well, sort of oxidizes and if you try to scrub it too much it scratches.

I would just not get caught up in the appearance and glitz. The devil is in the details of how it will get installed, what type of weather it will have to face in its working life.

Still it is nice to have some relief from the sun by some method. Even some types of netting can be used. Just consider what a good wind storm will do.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 87,933,531 times
Reputation: 22814
I know of a pretty neat solution, but it's pricey.


YouTube - Solara Patio Cover

Solara Smart Patio Covers made from aluminum that can open and close, Solara Adjustable Patio Covers, Aluminum Patio Shade, Adjustable Patio Cover, Patio Cover Kits, Adjustable Pergola Covers, Custom Patios, Pergolas, Awnings

Patio Covers, pergolas and awnings that open and close automatically with the use of a remote controlled electric motor-Solara Adjustable Patio Cover (http://www.patiocover.us/electric.htm - broken link)
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: northern california
380 posts, read 2,345,983 times
Reputation: 149
Ooh, those Solara covers look cool. And $$. Thanks for the fantasy links.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:58 AM
 
Location: northern california
380 posts, read 2,345,983 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic View Post
First of all your main enemy is going to be the wind, not the sun.

Either of those designs is going to want to fly, if you get any real wind. The Pergola may appear to be very open but there is still a lot of surface area for the wind to work on and generate forces.

Second with the vinyl, you want to be very knowledgeable about the hardware that is used to build the critter. If they are using aluminum screws and glue beware.

I just completed helping a friend repair a vinyl fence that got damaged in a wind storm in the winter. Something like 24 panels, six of them blew out. The main posts were unaffected, failure was in the mounting hardware / brackets / actual fence panels. That vinyl gets very brittle if cold and just snaps. They had used aluminum screws into both the main supporting posts and brackets, they had failed in a sheer mode, totally unsuitable for the application. The glue they use is just about useless. Screwing vinyl to vinyl in a thinwall application is very questionable. We were talking a wind storm of maybe 60 MPH gusts max to cause these type failures. You really have to think about the amount of surface areas that are being affected.

That shade sail surely will be affected by wind. You should note the attachment points are going to have to be very sturdy. They are showing a huge metal post in that pix of the ad. All the hardware will have to be capable of absorbing the forces involved. Hopefully it would be designed / installed for quick removal in case of major storms.

All hardware should be either heavy stainless or galvanized and be able to hack the forces generated.

Shade sail looks interesting for the money. Vinyl can appear to be a nice application but it also has this way of getting a bit grimy over time. Does not clean up all that well, sort of oxidizes and if you try to scrub it too much it scratches.

I would just not get caught up in the appearance and glitz. The devil is in the details of how it will get installed, what type of weather it will have to face in its working life.

Still it is nice to have some relief from the sun by some method. Even some types of netting can be used. Just consider what a good wind storm will do.
Excellent points, thank you. Ouch, sorry about your friend's fence. Funny, didn't occur to me that the shade sails might want to pick up wind, which makes sense since they're sails, after all. Wouldn't have thought the same of the pergola, but that does make sense. And coincidentally, it's been windy the last few days!

Didn't mean to link specifically to the vinyl pergola website, just an example of what I was visualizing. What materials are better for these? I've seen some homes advertise they have "durawood" trellises, etc. Is that a good material for a pergola?

We don't care as much about aesthetics as function -- good shade for very hot summers (near Sacramento, CA), that's not too cost prohibitive. Thanks again for all your help!
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:29 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 61,089,429 times
Reputation: 10691
We have a pergola on part of our deck. It does cut down on the sun but not completely. I have some bamboo shades on the west side of the pergola to cut the sun in the evening and that helps. I looked at the sail shades too but as the wind was blowing around 40 mph that day it didn't seem like such a good idea.

If you can plant a vine of some type that will grow over the top and west side of the pergola, that might be your best choice. We are in MN so by the time the vine fills in enough it is time for it to die off for the winter .

Our pergola is attached to the deck, part of the deck itself. Unless we get a tornado it isn't harmed by the wind at all. It looks similar to what your link shows but again, it is built right into the deck so the supports are also the posts into the ground for the deck flooring.
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:26 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 5,332,934 times
Reputation: 1991
I'm in southern California. I had an Alumawood patio cover installed last summer.. 45' x 20'. I went with the solid top rather than open lattice because everything stays dry when it rains, and it's always at least 10 degrees cooler than the rest of the yard so it's far more usable than an open lattice type would be. The Alumawood covers are tested to withstand hurricane force winds. Upside: it looks nice, won't rot or get termites and never needs painting. Downside: you can't drill holes to hang flower pots, and you can't walk on the roof of it so I haven't yet figured how to clean the upstairs windows above it. It was as expensive as a wooden one, so it's a personal preference. Overall I'm very happy with it.

I think for the money the sailshade is a good idea until you are clear on what permanent things you want to do in the yard. It says they have a 10 year warranty.
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:31 PM
 
Location: northern california
380 posts, read 2,345,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
We have a pergola on part of our deck. It does cut down on the sun but not completely. I have some bamboo shades on the west side of the pergola to cut the sun in the evening and that helps. I looked at the sail shades too but as the wind was blowing around 40 mph that day it didn't seem like such a good idea.

If you can plant a vine of some type that will grow over the top and west side of the pergola, that might be your best choice. We are in MN so by the time the vine fills in enough it is time for it to die off for the winter .

Our pergola is attached to the deck, part of the deck itself. Unless we get a tornado it isn't harmed by the wind at all. It looks similar to what your link shows but again, it is built right into the deck so the supports are also the posts into the ground for the deck flooring.
Sounds like your pergola's not going unless the deck goes too. I like the vine idea. That sounds pretty, assuming it grows in time to give some shade. Thanks!
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:35 PM
 
Location: northern california
380 posts, read 2,345,983 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcgCali View Post
I'm in southern California. I had an Alumawood patio cover installed last summer.. 45' x 20'. I went with the solid top rather than open lattice because everything stays dry when it rains, and it's always at least 10 degrees cooler than the rest of the yard so it's far more usable than an open lattice type would be. The Alumawood covers are tested to withstand hurricane force winds. Upside: it looks nice, won't rot or get termites and never needs painting. Downside: you can't drill holes to hang flower pots, and you can't walk on the roof of it so I haven't yet figured how to clean the upstairs windows above it. It was as expensive as a wooden one, so it's a personal preference. Overall I'm very happy with it.

I think for the money the sailshade is a good idea until you are clear on what permanent things you want to do in the yard. It says they have a 10 year warranty.

You're supposed to clean windows? Does the alumawood last longer than regular wood (not sure what's "regular" wood for a pergola/cover)? Is it the same as "durawood?" I did try to google this but am not doing a great job researching. Plus I like "talking" to folks here better.

Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2008, 01:59 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 5,332,934 times
Reputation: 1991
Quote:
You're supposed to clean windows? Does the alumawood last longer than regular wood (not sure what's "regular" wood for a pergola/cover)? Is it the same as "durawood?" I did try to google this but am not doing a great job researching. Plus I like "talking" to folks here better.
Ummmm...climbing ladders and cleaning second-story windows is definately a man's job, rewarded with homemade cake. What time can I expect you?

Alumawood is a brand name aluminum patio cover system that mimics wood in appearance. Durawood is plastic... high density polyethylene... made to mimic wood in appearance. Regular wood is real wood, made by trees. Does that cover it?

I'm a master researcher.... I typed in "alumawood" and bingo! Alumawood.com - Simple Do-It-Yourself Patio Kits
I had mine built by these guys Welcome to Rooms N Covers&#153 because (A) it's huge and (B) I learned a valuable lesson years ago when hubby and I built a wooden lattice patio cover from a kit at a previous home... ie: I get the job of holding the posts upright while he gets to drop the hammer on my head and pelt me with nails, and the neighbors get entertained with the foulest of loud exchanges.

Will it last longer than wood? Well, it can't get termites or rot, or need painting, like my wooden gazebo that the jungle is taking back, so unless you fall on it while cleaning the windows, I'm guessing it will. Even the county building inspector said they really good and he wants one. Wood is really nice, and you can walk on it or even make it a deck for the upstairs, and hang potted plants or breezy curtains...but judging by my gazebo, this is a better choice for me.
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