Home Invasion and no good deed goes unpunished (costs, outside, worth)

[prisoner54]

Not sure if there is anything else we can do in our home situation. Bought a duplex 14 years ago with my in-law; deed was approved as all owners (3) have joint ownership with rights of survivorship. One owner (in-LAw) dies last Aug 07; in laws seize property in Oct 07 when it is obvious we (married couple) are not giving up our rights to property. Neither police nor sheriff's department will touch it as they state "it is in Court". NY state requires all to go to probate court. They try to state the "Deed is not completed properly"; judge recently agrees deed is actually clear and they don't have "legal" claim to property. However they are still holding onto property. We go back to court on 08/06/08 but not sure if court will address seized property which we pay all taxes and utilities for and live next to. This gives them access to our half of the property, btw. So far we've spent slightly under $18,000 in legal fees alone, on property we live on but the court nor the police are concerned that this might get out of hand. I have a war chest ready but wonder if there is anything else I haven't thought to do.

[Tek_Freek]

You didn't mention having an attorney. Do you?

Since it sounds like you are next door to the property in question and may have a view of it, I would set up a camera to record activity there. It may not be crucial now, but if the court sees fit to boot them out it would be smart to have a record of anything they do on the way out. Some people are vindictive and if they decide to damage the property you will have a record of it for future legal action.

Here's a site with some information. If you use Google you can find plenty more.

Using Remote Security Cameras with Your Wireless Computer Network - Associated Content

Here's an interesting article about using web cams and motion detection. This might also work with the security cameras, I didn't have time to look into it that much. The benefit here is that it only records with movement so you aren't watching a bunch of nothing.

How to use your PC and Webcam as a motion-detecting and recording security camera - Simple Help

[Barking Spider]

Rent the movie Pacific Heights if you want to get freaked out and add to your worries. If you don't have an atty, get one, or maybe get a better one.
Good luck

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by prisoner54

Not sure if there is anything else we can do in our home situation. Bought a duplex 14 years ago with my in-law; deed was approved as all owners (3) have joint ownership with rights of survivorship. One owner (in-LAw) dies last Aug 07; in laws seize property in Oct 07 when it is obvious we (married couple) are not giving up our rights to property. Neither police nor sheriff's department will touch it as they state "it is in Court". NY state requires all to go to probate court. They try to state the "Deed is not completed properly"; judge recently agrees deed is actually clear and they don't have "legal" claim to property. However they are still holding onto property. We go back to court on 08/06/08 but not sure if court will address seized property which we pay all taxes and utilities for and live next to. This gives them access to our half of the property, btw. So far we've spent slightly under $18,000 in legal fees alone, on property we live on but the court nor the police are concerned that this might get out of hand. I have a war chest ready but wonder if there is anything else I haven't thought to do.

It sounds like you need a better attorney. If the deed contains joint-tenancy language, which seems to have been established, they have no claim and can be compelled to vacate. They are probably being advised by some dirtbag to string this out as long as possible to increase your costs. The longer this goes on the more expensive it's going to be, the more likely it is that they can pull some slight of hand and at some point it will not be worth it to keep fighting. Get a better, more agressive attorney.

[prisoner54]

I would love to but I'm sure the next attorney will want his share too. This guy, not to defend him has a good reputation in real estate to boot.
I actually fired my first attorney so am a little hesitant about firing the second one too. I agree with yr comments though and it is good food for thought. Thanks for yr reply.

Originally Posted by jimboburnsy

It sounds like you need a better attorney. If the deed contains joint-tenancy language, which seems to have been established, they have no claim and can be compelled to vacate. They are probably being advised by some dirtbag to string this out as long as possible to increase your costs. The longer this goes on the more expensive it's going to be, the more likely it is that they can pull some slight of hand and at some point it will not be worth it to keep fighting. Get a better, more agressive attorney.

[prisoner54]

Yup, we're on our second attorney, as I fired the first one.

The cameras' are a good thought and I'll check out those sites, thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

You didn't mention having an attorney. Do you?

Since it sounds like you are next door to the property in question and may have a view of it, I would set up a camera to record activity there. It may not be crucial now, but if the court sees fit to boot them out it would be smart to have a record of anything they do on the way out. Some people are vindictive and if they decide to damage the property you will have a record of it for future legal action.

Here's a site with some information. If you use Google you can find plenty more.

Using Remote Security Cameras with Your Wireless Computer Network - Associated Content

Here's an interesting article about using web cams and motion detection. This might also work with the security cameras, I didn't have time to look into it that much. The benefit here is that it only records with movement so you aren't watching a bunch of nothing.

How to use your PC and Webcam as a motion-detecting and recording security camera - Simple Help

[Sgoldie]

If it's a deed with rights of survivorship that means the deceased's interest in the property reverts to you on their death. It would have to have been recorded that way in official public files at the time.

Your atty needs to ask the court to have the interlopers 'cease and desist' from any control, interference, occupancy, or access. If personal property is remaining in the other unit it should be removed within a stated period of time. You need papers signed by the judge to this effect.

You'll need to record a new title without that person's name of it.

[Poltracker]

Why haven't you filed for eviction yet? You said that the judge stated the deed was clear. Joint ownership w/ survival rights pass outside of probabte so I don't know how the judge could say anything more on the matter. What does your attorney say?

[hcgCali]

If I understand you correctly, you and your spouse bought a duplex with spouse's parent, joint tenancy w/ rights of survivorship, they lived in one half and you & spouse lived in other half? Then parent died and spouse's sibling moved in to the parent's half, claiming an inheritance right?

A validly executed and recorded deed trumps all else, even a will (you cannot give away what wasn't yours to give away in the first place, and property held in joint tenancy cannot be transferred without the written consent of ALL owners ). Subsequently the court has ruled in your favor that the deed was properly executed? So at this point the in-laws are trespassers and the police excuse that "it's in the court" no longer applies. When the court ruled, did your attorney ask for an order that the in-laws vacate the premises? It seems that you could take the court ruling to the police to have the in-laws evicted. Or, if you're gutsy enough....play their own "possession is 9/10ths of the law" game and while they are out, get a locksmith to change the locks, remove all their personal belongings and reclaim your property. As long as they are living there for free, they have every incentive to drag it out and keep you in court as long as possible.

we pay all taxes and utilities

Oh, and... why haven't you shut off utilities to that unit???

Lesson for anyone considering the joint tenancy w/rights of survivorship route with a parent or child (which is a perfectly good plan and eliminates transfer fees and getting taxed on reassessed value or inheritance tax) .... back it up in the wills, with language that the intention was for the property to go to the joint owner/survivor and not other heirs... then there is no question to be disputed in court, you have 2 signed and witnessed documents corroborating intent.

Never underestimate the ability of the sweetest relatives to turn into banshees from Hell where inheritance is concerned.

[windtimber]

In some states an action for eviction/dispossession from real property [forcible entry and detainer] can not be combined with any other relief. Since the interpretation of the deed had to be determined by a court, I presume the facts on ownership were not as clear as the OP suggests. If the deed was unclear, an eviction action alone might not be successful. Since you have to have a prima facie case for eviction [if the non-joinder with other causes of action rule applies in this jurisdiction] you're left with a 2 step process. First - establish your right to possession/ownership in court. Sounds like the OP won that one. Second - evict them based on your now judicially confirmed title.

Since the OP indicates they're back in court on August 6, I suspect they're in between steps 1 and 2 right now. Why doesn't the Sheriff do something? Because he or she can only undertake steps authorized and directed by the court. Bet the court hasn't addressed possession but only title.