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I need your help to solve a mystery that has been haunting me for over a year now. My husband and I contracted with several companies when building our new home in Panama City, Florida. All but one honored the terms of the agreement. That one unfortunately has been a complete nightmare and got so mad that he filed a fraudulent lien against our home and is now manipulating the Bay County Courts to steal $35,000 from us. Legal fees have wiped out our life savings and blogging is now the only thing that I can afford to do. I'm not asking what to do, as it is long past that question and is now in the hands of lawyers and a judge.
My question is why?
Please vote on which you think makes the most sense.
Answer one:
Jeff the contractor was very friendly in the beginning. Flirty and playful all the time. I was probably more friendly than I needed to be but I didn't mean to imply that I was looking for anything more than construction work. I would often bring breakfast to show my appreciation for their hard work, not as a come on. As time went on he would ask me to help him with things like babysitting his crew so he could attend to other matters and to help advertise his business. I always was happy to help him and we got along great! However he was very skiddish around my husband and avoided him whenever possible. Jeff would talk about how unhappy he was in his marriage and about other personal and family problems. I would sit and listen because I thought that he was a nice guy who just needed a friend. When his playful flirting turned into more I told him that I wasn't interested. Also, he would use our "friendship" to beg and plead for pay advances and I would give in because I felt bad for him. His response to be turned down on both was violent and then he filed a law suit to collect for the "gifts and favors" at about ten times of their actual value just out of revenge??
Answer two:
It turned out that Jeff the contractor was a convicted felon with a history of grand theft and violence. He neglected to share with me anything about his many years that he spent in prison on our many long talks. He claimed from the start that he could throw in some extras as he had budgeted for them and always throws in a few extras to make people happy. He also would reward us for finding mistakes early that would cost him big to fix later. We also did other things for him and allowed some short cuts to help him when he said that he was strapped for cash. He got us to agree to some changes that he said would help him with advertising his business and would not cost us any extra! My husband and I asked that they be in writing and he responded that only things that he would charge us for needed to be in writing and also he said "I didn't ask you to sign for anything did I" So, we let it go. He then filed a lien and lawsuit to collect for those so called "favors" "thank you gifts" and "business advertising promotions" at about ten times their value. He also kept the contract vague and was irritated when we would add details for him to initial. He said that only the major things need to be in writing and that the standard items didn't need to be mentioned. Now, he is suing for those as well. He threatens me when I go public with my story. We were on a budget when we hired him and we did talk him down in price. He specifically said that any changes to the contract would have to be in writing. Wrong! Florida courts are easy to manipulate as something in writing is not needed. As he well knew that and we did not. Do you think that he signed the contract with the price that we were willing to pay with the deceptive plan to get us in the end?
Answer three:
Maybe a combination. Do you think that he started out in good faith but then got stressed out when he was having financial problems. Maybe he got resentful that the extras for advertising didn't produce any more contracts in the neighborhood and the bills coming in were higher than what he had budgeted for. Maybe he was resentful that we hired other contractors to do work that he wanted to be hired for. Also, we put in a swimming pool and screen enclosure during his time of need. Was this considered to be a slap in the face for someone who lowered his price to meet our budget? Then, I told him that I wasn't interested and refused to advance him the final payment. He kept hollering with such vile language. "AFTER ALL I HAVE DONE FOR YOU AND THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY ME". "I WILL SUE YOU"! That is the only promise that he kept! He also left our home needing $20,000 in damage. Maybe because he was mad or maybe he planned it from the start.
"Jeff would talk about how unhappy he was in his marriage and about other personal and family problems. I would sit and listen because I thought that he was a nice guy who just needed a friend. When his playful flirting turned into more I told him that I wasn't interested."
This behavior on your part by "listening" was where you made your biggest mistake, NEVER mix business with friendship.
" Also, he would use our "friendship" to beg and plead for pay advances and I would give in because I felt bad for him. His response to be turned down on both was violent and then he filed a law suit to collect for the "gifts and favors" at about ten times of their actual value just out of revenge??"
You were scammed hook line and sinker the law suit is just more of that.
"Jeff would talk about how unhappy he was in his marriage and about other personal and family problems. I would sit and listen because I thought that he was a nice guy who just needed a friend. When his playful flirting turned into more I told him that I wasn't interested."
This behavior on your part by "listening" was where you made your biggest mistake, NEVER mix business with friendship.
" Also, he would use our "friendship" to beg and plead for pay advances and I would give in because I felt bad for him. His response to be turned down on both was violent and then he filed a law suit to collect for the "gifts and favors" at about ten times of their actual value just out of revenge??"
You were scammed hook line and sinker the law suit is just more of that.
I would like to read the contract. Payment should have been in there as to times and amounts.
But doesn't sound like much of a contractor me. Is he licensed, did you check that he is???? FL can be tough if you are not and are playing contractor. Did he give you a business card with his license number on it, is it on the letterhead of his quote. Is his number anywhere in writing? How did he really identify himself initially, what information did he give to allow you to check him out?
Most of the practices sound beyond the pale. No good contractor does anything like that, especially the begging for payment before it is required.
Sounds like one of those cases where the contract is very poor. I can't see why a court would favor him in such a case, usually they go the other way.
Also calls in question what method did you use to check him out prior to signing? So easy to do. Ask for references, what other jobs he has done close by, ask around the neighborhood. If you are a contractor working in a particular neighborhood and nobody knows you, a good sign to walk away quick. Either is a newbie or a potential scam artist. Good contractors are pretty well known, they can supply a huge list of references of other jobs they have done that you can call. The better ones will have photo books with names and addresses of previous jobs to show off their work. A good contractor does not try to hide, they give out tons of business cards for you to give to your friends after a successful job, they get quite well known, many merchants who the might deal with them will know them on a first name basis, especially places like banks, smaller main street type businesses.
So many good contractors around, why deal with bums. It pays to know who you are dealing with. Also never sign vague or incomplete contracts. If you are in doubt, do not sign, get a copy, have a lawyer or other experienced folks look at it. It should be very complete, discribe the work in detail, give a payment schedule tied to a work completion scheme. Never agree to pay based on a time schedule only, typical is an initial payment enough to cover materials, if it is a big job, some type of scheduled payment based on percentage complete, a final payment at the end of job, usually that is maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the total. Insist the contract contain a start date and approximate end date. All terms and conditions should be clearly spelled out, a good contract protects both sides, do not sign anything you do not agree with.
Crying and getting into anything personal is a no-no. Any good contractor keeps it all business and tries to recruit clients to refer more work in the future. Satisfied customers are key to getting new businesses, you can not survive if the quote / real job ratio gets very high. A good customer base that has repeat work and refers others is the only way to stay in business long term. Schemes that attempt to change the terms of the contract are also a no-no. Only valid change orders should be accepted.
Same with claims that your particular job is some type of sales promotion, very dicey stuff. Any legit contractor will ask to put a sign on your yard during the job to advertise the business, that is about the limit that anyone should attempt.
I would start by checking he is really a licensed contractor and then see what type of board that regulates them and what they can tell you. Most states now have very slick methods of regulation for contractors, including in some the ability of peeps to file complaints against them. Some even have a money pool where you can file for a judgement. Those moneys are collected from each contractor every year as a form of a fee, the good pay as well as the bad. Horrible system in some regard, from the contractor point of view, might vary a bit state to state, you should become very aware of the methods and rules in Florida.
Im a 30 year veteran contractor who has seen some of the worst in consumers so let me look from my side. I see some holes in your story. And since this is your story how on earth can anyone of us here give you the answers your looking for....especially since it was a year ago.
First thing I wonder is you said he was a convicted felon. In Florida you can not obtain a contractors license if you have even a minor conviction. So is this true? Why do you think he is a convicted felon? If he is then the contractor board failed in their attempt to screen him before they issued him a license. I really doubt that is the case since I know how contractor boards all over this country rape contractor applicants of their privacy. I believe you made this up.
No contractor pleads for advances outside of what is written in a contract. If they do you say no. If they insist then you call the contractors board. No court would accept or hear a claim such as your description of a contractor suing for favors he gave you. And besides, it is clear that you flirted back with him....that dont make you bad or wrong, it just adds to this crazy situation and your lack of credibility.
You said he threw in some extras because he budgeted for them. If he budgeted for them then that means YOU paid for them. Which means he gave you nothing extra. He would reward you for finding his mistakes? How do I answer this? That is the most stupid thing I ever heard in my life. **Mod Cut not on topic** I dont even know what to say here. If a contractor said that to me then the first thing I would think of is ummmm just how many mistakes do you plan to make Mr contractor? And how much are you paying me to be your project manager?
He asked you to make changes that helped him with advertising? How in the hell does a change help with advertising? Do you realize how bad that makes you look for even saying it? It just is not real life. Any major changes is up to the code enforcement people, not you or your contractor. I do agree that if he made some minor change for free then I see no need to sign anything. Unless he already establishes himself as making promises that he never keeps.
You can not file a lien for a promise, a favor or a thank you as you claim. The claim would not be accepted by any court because there is no claim.
What kind of threats is he making? If he makes a threat then I would hope your local donut connoisseurs would do something about that. Call them next time,, they might be willing to leave Dunkin Donuts to see you.
No such thing as any specific state court being easy to manipulate, including Florida. Why would you say that? It sounds like the contract was full of more holes then your story. If it is in writing then it is enforceable...PERIOD!! I hate to admit this but yes there are many unethical contractors out there who lowball the bid and jack the price up later. How they do it I will never know but they do. When I give a price, if I make a mistake then I eat it. I have finished jobs and took a loss just to make my customer happy. That little loss will be refer me some day because they liked the work but had no idea I lost money on their job.
Your last parts about the pool and screened porch I did not understand who paid for what or who was supposed to. But I did understand clearly that you did not pay him the balance. That is wrong lady. You stuck him for $35,000 knowing he made no profit? So what do you think that does to him? He already lost his house over you due to that loss. Your silly poll about revenge should be YOU getting revenge on him. By not paying the balance it is YOU who breached the contract.
The correct action is for you to contact the Florida contractors board and ask for an arbitrator. They are free and sit down with everyone and make it all work. Then and only then if you are not happy with the results do you find a lawyer and sue for loss. It seems to me the only one who lost here was the contractor, not you. You got your complete new house, he lost his trying to pay off the debt you caused him. If the house is not what you wanted then that is not really his fault.
Contractors have their own little secret black list which most of us belong to. There is a list of bad people, everyone from trouble makers to those who collect bids from contractors like they were fine collectables. Your contractor sounds like a real stupid as a box of rocks idiot and I doubt he is aware of the homeowner black list. If he was you would be there.
You have told so little to defend yourself here. He is a dumb azz so you both are in the same mess. But in the end you got what you contracted for and he is $35,000 or more in debt for honoring his end. If his end was not up to par then that is irrelevant as long as it was completed. In the eyes of the law he executed his end of the contract and YOU are in default of your end. If some completed items were not up to par then you will be compensated for this by the courts.
He will prevail in court, I promise you that so I hope you didn't spend the money you held back and owe him. PLUS INTEREST !!!
I hope you learned from this mess. I hope everyone reading this has too.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-29-2008 at 05:40 PM..
Reason: Off Topic
Im a 30 year veteran contractor who has seen some of the worst in consumers so let me look from my side. I see some holes in your story. And since this is your story how on earth can anyone of us here give you the answers your looking for....especially since it was a year ago.
First thing I wonder is you said he was a convicted felon. In Florida you can not obtain a contractors license if you have even a minor conviction. So is this true? Why do you think he is a convicted felon? If he is then the contractor board failed in their attempt to screen him before they issued him a license. I really doubt that is the case since I know how contractor boards all over this country rape contractor applicants of their privacy. I believe you made this up.
No contractor pleads for advances outside of what is written in a contract. If they do you say no. If they insist then you call the contractors board. No court would accept or hear a claim such as your description of a contractor suing for favors he gave you. And besides, it is clear that you flirted back with him....that dont make you bad or wrong, it just adds to this crazy situation and your lack of credibility.
You said he threw in some extras because he budgeted for them. If he budgeted for them then that means YOU paid for them. Which means he gave you nothing extra. He would reward you for finding his mistakes? How do I answer this? That is the most stupid thing I ever heard in my life. *** I dont even know what to say here. If a contractor said that to me then the first thing I would think of is ummmm just how many mistakes do you plan to make Mr contractor? And how much are you paying me to be your project manager?
He asked you to make changes that helped him with advertising? How in the hell does a change help with advertising? Do you realize how bad that makes you look for even saying it? It just is not real life. Any major changes is up to the code enforcement people, not you or your contractor. I do agree that if he made some minor change for free then I see no need to sign anything. Unless he already establishes himself as making promises that he never keeps.
You can not file a lien for a promise, a favor or a thank you as you claim. The claim would not be accepted by any court because there is no claim.
What kind of threats is he making? If he makes a threat then I would hope your local donut connoisseurs would do something about that. Call them next time,, they might be willing to leave Dunkin Donuts to see you.
No such thing as any specific state court being easy to manipulate, including Florida. Why would you say that? It sounds like the contract was full of more holes then your story. If it is in writing then it is enforceable...PERIOD!! I hate to admit this but yes there are many unethical contractors out there who lowball the bid and jack the price up later. How they do it I will never know but they do. When I give a price, if I make a mistake then I eat it. I have finished jobs and took a loss just to make my customer happy. That little loss will be refer me some day because they liked the work but had no idea I lost money on their job.
Your last parts about the pool and screened porch I did not understand who paid for what or who was supposed to. But I did understand clearly that you did not pay him the balance. That is wrong lady. You stuck him for $35,000 knowing he made no profit? So what do you think that does to him? He already lost his house over you due to that loss. Your silly poll about revenge should be YOU getting revenge on him. By not paying the balance it is YOU who breached the contract.
The correct action is for you to contact the Florida contractors board and ask for an arbitrator. They are free and sit down with everyone and make it all work. Then and only then if you are not happy with the results do you find a lawyer and sue for loss. It seems to me the only one who lost here was the contractor, not you. You got your complete new house, he lost his trying to pay off the debt you caused him. If the house is not what you wanted then that is not really his fault.
Contractors have their own little secret black list which most of us belong to. There is a list of bad people, everyone from trouble makers to those who collect bids from contractors like they were fine collectables. Your contractor sounds like a real stupid as a box of rocks idiot and I doubt he is aware of the homeowner black list. If he was you would be there.
You have told so little to defend yourself here. He is a dumb azz so you both are in the same mess. But in the end you got what you contracted for and he is $35,000 or more in debt for honoring his end. If his end was not up to par then that is irrelevant as long as it was completed. In the eyes of the law he executed his end of the contract and YOU are in default of your end. If some completed items were not up to par then you will be compensated for this by the courts.
He will prevail in court, I promise you that so I hope you didn't spend the money you held back and owe him. PLUS INTEREST !!!
I hope you learned from this mess. I hope everyone reading this has too.
Very well said!!! You took the opportunity to educate!!!!
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-29-2008 at 05:42 PM..
Reason: Off Topic
Having seen tons of this post Katrina and thousands upon thousands of people taken for anything from $1,000 to $100,000, you have my sympathy. We had a similar experience with what seemed to be a ligitimate contractor. He was really friendly and charming, presented us with copies of proof of insurance and licence, and he provided three references. We went and checked out the home of one of his references and were pleased with the work.
That bastard took us for $12,000 and eight months of our lives. It turns out the papers were ligit five years ago and the dates were changed, the other two references, it turns out did not have their work completed but had agreed to be used before they had trouble, and there was no business address. We spent another $8,000 fixing the problems he left us with and another year on additional waiting lists for plumbers and electrictions.
What could we do about it? Pretty much nothing. The "business phone" was his girlfriend's cell phone and he lived with her so he had no address to list on court papers. The checks he cashed were not put in an account, he used his fingerprint to cash them. He had apparently done this to other people and knows how to hide.
I would advise people to be aware when hiring contractors that in LA there is a site to check the licence numbers, go see several homes not just one, check for a ligitimate business and don't rely on the heading of the contract, don't get too friendly because it gets awkward when you have a problem, never ever hand over a final check even if their Grandma is dying and there is only one more screw left and they swear they'll be back next week, and when they start talking about problems with their girlfriend, understand that you are not working with a professional, (yes, happened to me too).
Bless your heart, you were "played" by a professional con-artist as were we and the similarities are scary. There are tons of these pigs out there and it makes things harder on ligitimate contractors.
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Hate to tell you this.......
