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Well it seems I am right again. Radon is a scam. Only one post by barking spider thinks other wise. I will watch to see how many responses this thead gets to see just how many agree that radon is the biggest scam since the global warming scam.
The biggest complainers some times are smokers. Gimme a break.
I am a New Jersey DEP licensed radon specialist with 20+ years experience in testing and mitigating homes for radon. I mitigate about 150 homes a year. You are not right.....in fact......you couldn't be more wrong. Apparenty with your reputation level you must be knowledgeable on some subjects but I can tell you when it comes to knowledge on radon.....your an idiot !!!
In any real hazard, there is a way to describe what it is, then describe what will happen to you if you get exposure.
Radon is a colorless....odorless.....radioactive gas......it comes from decaying, naturally formed uranium deposits in the ground. As it goes through certain stages of decay it gives off radon 222 gas which seeps up and accumulates in basements. Its not the presence of the gas but its decay thats harmful. As it decays the radioactive atom splits apart and lodges in your lungs......enough radioactivity will eventually cause lung cancer......especially in children and their breathing zone is closer to the ground where the greater radon accumulation is and their cell growth/change is greater. I mitigate homes all the time with occupants....adults and children....who have lung cancer....including those who have never smoked.
I have yet to understand why anyone on a message board would willing give information opposite of what ,for example, the EPA says. Hopefully you take each reply with a grain of salt and overall you keep your own personal safety at the fore front. Meaning you are willing to make sure you know the level of radon the whole time you are willing to live in the home. It's not the small doses of radiation that kill. It's long term exposure. Unless someone can provide extensive data on how radon is a scam the general census between the organizations that matter is it's bad and should be attended to immediately.
I have yet to understand why anyone on a message board would willing give information opposite of what ,for example, the EPA says. Hopefully you take each reply with a grain of salt and overall you keep your own personal safety at the fore front. Meaning you are willing to make sure you know the level of radon the whole time you are willing to live in the home. It's not the small doses of radiation that kill. It's long term exposure. Unless someone can provide extensive data on how radon is a scam the general census between the organizations that matter is it's bad and should be attended to immediately.
My name is Mike.....I'm a New Jersey DEP licensed radon specialist with 20+ years experience testing and mitigating and you are absolutely correct. Unfortunately....there seems to be two or three individuals posting on here that couldn't be more wrong with the information they have posted but apparently feel they have the right to spew their ignorance on those seeking qualified opinions. I have DM'd them to inform them of that but their responses just show continued ignorance. If there is anyone seeking accurate information on radon please don't hesitate to DM me with your questions.
So you want to call a trained nuke an idiot.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan
I am a New Jersey DEP licensed radon specialist with 20+ years experience in testing and mitigating homes for radon. I mitigate about 150 homes a year. You are not right.....in fact......you couldn't be more wrong. Apparenty with your reputation level you must be knowledgeable on some subjects but I can tell you when it comes to knowledge on radon.....your an idiot !!!
Sorry, I have forgot more than you probably will ever know. I was only trained in the Admiral Rickover nuclear navy as a reactor operator. Not just the normal stuff, participated in one of the most advanced design phases of development for new power plants. I think I have seen the real stuff.
So I am not a one isotope Johnny come lately. I actually understand the full scope of the health physics field, including all the real hazards normally related to various type of radiation. Radon is not a hazard, there is zero data showing it to be, no matter how they try to spin it.
BTW, why do you think you are qualified to call a real trained nuke an idiot. Hope you do not make that mistake on a daily basis. More than one of us out there running around. Most will not be all that impressed with your qualifications.
Sorry, I have forgot more than you probably will ever know. I was only trained in the Admiral Rickover nuclear navy as a reactor operator. Not just the normal stuff, participated in one of the most advanced design phases of development for new power plants. I think I have seen the real stuff.
So I am not a one isotope Johnny come lately. I actually understand the full scope of the health physics field, including all the real hazards normally related to various type of radiation. Radon is not a hazard, there is zero data showing it to be, no matter how they try to spin it.
BTW, why do you think you are qualified to call a real trained nuke an idiot. Hope you do not make that mistake on a daily basis. More than one of us out there running around. Most will not be all that impressed with your qualifications.
Apparently the data which the Federal EPA and numerous other nations used to arrive at the conclusion that long term exposure to excessive radon levels can cause lung cancer is inadequate for you to accept their findings and recommendations. Based upon your clearly limited knowledge of radon in homes you would rather believe it to be a bogus conspiracy.....I have no idea what the government gains in conspiring to make the public believe radon is a health concern when it really isn't ? But, you go ahead and let your children play in that basement that has excessive radon levels because you know it all. I'm sorry, but to me that make you an idiot !!!
Radon is a colorless....odorless.....radioactive gas......it comes from decaying, naturally formed uranium deposits in the ground. As it goes through certain stages of decay it gives off radon 222 gas which seeps up and accumulates in basements. Its not the presence of the gas but its decay thats harmful. As it decays the radioactive atom splits apart and lodges in your lungs......enough radioactivity will eventually cause lung cancer......especially in children and their breathing zone is closer to the ground where the greater radon accumulation is and their cell growth/change is greater. I mitigate homes all the time with occupants....adults and children....who have lung cancer....including those who have never smoked.
This is an example of the bogus hype. In effect he is claiming something like an alpha particle. I hate to tell you this. Alpha in the lungs will not require a long time, in any quanity at all and that can be pico amounts, you will be dead in a short time. Like in months. For example if you inhale any of the fuel / weapons type isotopes, cancer comes extremely quick. Most of those decay by alpha.
This quote got to be a real chuckle:
"As it decays the radioactive atom splits apart and lodges in your lungs......enough radioactivity will eventually cause lung cancer......"
Sweet Jesus are you claiming to be a trained nuke with that sort of mess. A radioactive atom splitting apart. What is it some sort of fast fission. Can you please explain this crude attempt at nuclear physics. My dear, decay is not splitting anything apart. Just for the record most atoms are radioactive, it is just the matter of degree. Just about all atoms decay by some method, the half life can vary all over the place. There is plenty of "Hazards" if one wants to play that word game laying around. All homes have "Background radiation", it is in every breath you take. Part of the game is to convince folks that somebody can create a "Clean World". Even your very own body is radioactive and just about everything on this planet or in the Universe, only the degree varies. Only some forms of lead are said to be stable.
The real truth everybody should understand, there are no massive casuality numbers for radon. Simply take all the lung cancer deaths for all causes. Subtract out the smoking ones, subtract out the industrials causes, subtract out all the other known normal causes. There are none left over for radon in a statistical sense. These bogus claims don't have a victim base, where are the huge numbers to justify the extreme hazards? Radon is around in the environment in many, many places, not just your homes. Everybody is exposed to some level. What are the claimed numbers for deaths each year. Peeps should be dropping like flies.
This gets to be even more of a chuckle. Radon does not exist in just the USA. Many folks around the World experience it in quite high levels. Example, in France there are areas where peeps live in caves or in a sort of underground environment. Have done for centuries. They probably live in elevated radon environments. Should be simple to find cancers all over the place, huge death tolls. Is it just not being reported?????? There should be bodies all over the World. In fact most all miners work all their working careers in elevated environments. How many die from radon? Somewhere they should find a smoking gun. Not that I've ever heard of. In the nuke game, peeps are very sensitive to any claims of radiation type hazards. Zillions of dollars spent over the years on research in the general field of health physics. Nobody ever claimed radon was a hazard. It is more a nuisance. It could cause alarms that must be checked out, it could be other isotopes that we did have to worry about. In general in the nuke industries radon is ignored as a potential harmful hazard.
One thing everybody should completely understand which is the key to how bogus their arguments are. If it is a gas that decays to a harmful particle, it also will do so outside the human body. That means it can contaminate the environment inside a house, generally known as loose surface contamination. Usually it will not stay airborne, tends to settle out, about like very small fine dust. This will contaminate the food chain. Meaning you will injest the materials in food. It will not take much in the GI tract of the wrong particles. If Alpha in most cases it is a death sentence. We know very well what happens in a nuke plant if a worker gets the wrong stuff in the wrong place. There are cases of nuke workers dying from contamination in places like the ear. The other point he so sweetly misses, this non inhaled particles should tend to concentrate because there will be a difference in production and decay rates. All the normal rules in the nuke game are at work. A skilled ELT should be able to find this evidence outside the human body just laying around the house as some sort of hazardous material. It can be collected using the normal methods and counted. You should be able to put an exposure value to it in terms of whole body radiation received for the year. It should count against the year dose allowed. What is a good number for radon exposure at extemely high levels like as done in the medical therapy treatments measured in REM??
Our friend tries to relate radon exposure to the real hazardous stuff in a sort of scare campaign. I might add fairly crudely done.
The bottom line if all the scare tactics are remotely true where are all the victims. There should be hundreds of thousands if not millions around the World. It should be a major killer and very high on every health organizations list. Please explain why that is not occuring. The bottom line is if it is a killer, lots of peeps should be dead. The data of deaths should correlate to areas of higher radon concentrations. Like any other real hazards, the deaths follow the killer. Does not happen with radon. No real hard verifiable numbers for deaths anywhere totally attributable to radon that I know of.
Apparently the data which the Federal EPA and numerous other nations used to arrive at the conclusion that long term exposure to excessive radon levels can cause lung cancer is inadequate for you to accept their findings and recommendations. Based upon your clearly limited knowledge of radon in homes you would rather believe it to be a bogus conspiracy.....I have no idea what the government gains in conspiring to make the public believe radon is a health concern when it really isn't ? But, you go ahead and let your children play in that basement that has excessive radon levels because you know it all. I'm sorry, but to me that make you an idiot !!!
Again you show your lack of proper training.
If you really had any full understanding of health physics you would realize the game played at the government level. BTW health physics is the science of how radiation affects living organisms. It is a very broad field, a bit difficult to understand some of the concepts for a rookie. I guess that does include the gentleman.
Where does radon fit into the big picture in health physics? Probably about like the crazy aunt that used to live in the attic. Sort of harmless but we have to have a pigeon hole to make it fit. Hey, we defined all the other isotopes, what about this one.
So like with most things it starts out simple and goes off on a wild rant. The various agency(s) can do that at times. The thing that is weird it is not treated like most other rad hazards. For those there is almost a theme, common sense approach, things make sense, limits are set, boundaries are defined. The hazards can be demo'd, things are done by a sort of number sets. If you get this exposure, you have this potential liability based around this type of regime. We know what to do with CO-60, AR-41 on and on. Tangle with some of those and you are in a World of hurt for real. Exposures can and are defined. Amounts of potential whole body damage is defined.
Not so for radon, it gets a complete nonsense type treatment. There are zero numbers I've ever seen relating exposure to any sort of potential damage as a REM number. In real life it probably falls more into those categories of soft beta emitters that are so common in real life. Everything is radioactive but most things are harmless, examples are many foods. We eat them without any potential harm, the levels and mechanisms that cause harm do not normally come into play. It is a numbers game and you do have to understand the basics of how radiation damages the body and what might be required to have that happen.
The radon game is further played by trying to divorce any discussion from the general broad field of health physics and all the rules that apply there. It becomes it's own lil game over in one corner by pusedo experts using some crude terminology pretending to have some type of nuclear training. Some so bad to be laughable.
The tricks used are the same as with most scare games. Childern in basements being zapped and only they can save them. In fact the World is loaded with hazards, radiation, chemical, bio in nature. Some are sure fired killers if not controlled. In the radiation area everything that will really hurt you for sure is completely controlled cradle to grave in its entire existence. Most you never have a prayer of ever coming into contact with.
Then you have that category of potential harmful effects if you completely go wild, like drink 10 gallons of beer a day for 30 years. Eventually you could get Cobalt poisoning, a bit of radiation exposure along the way but probably die of liver disease. You can have a few isotopes fall into the chronic category, get this exposure over a long, long time, maybe could be fatal. The Radon nuts try to sneak into this category but it is a bit of a reach with all claims from all materials. Usually it is not a pure, simple scenario where that material can be blamed.
If our friend actually was as well trained as he claims, he would be able to put the World in proper perspective. You can follow a common sense rule. Never get undue exposure to any thing in excess even if you think it is harmless. Same might be said for radon. Would you knowing expose yourself to extremely high levels if you knew in advance. Not a good practice, but the same is true for all risks, (however they might be defined) in daily life.
The problem with radon is defining the levels. Clearly from experience we know a human can survive extreme levels, with apparently no stay times. The claims are it is a chronic actor with totally zero proof of any damage. The almost silly part is a total lack of verifiable deaths that one can attribute to some type of exposure. The numbers do not work to prove it can be fatal in any manner.
A lot of the things about health physics are vague at the edges. It is not an exact science. There is one chuckle we did learn from Cherynol accident in the former USSR. The human body can withstand a lot more acute radiation, being zapped at very high levels and still function, at least for a while. In fact all of the numbers I had been taught at the high end turned out to be too low. The USA had very limited experience with super high acute exposure that was life threatening. When the doctors from the USA went to help, they started quoting our number bases and trying to work from what we thought various limits were. The Russian simply said no, they of course had a far better handle of what a human could endure. They had some major nuclear accidents and zapped a bunch of folks, causing classic deaths.
So should you buy a house with some radon measured level. Maybe, maybe not, but you should be able to put the arguments into some perspective. In general houses should be built to make the question moot, but that can be said for so many other potential hazards. Life is not clean, not hazard free, not as safe as claimed. The question is in being to understand potential threats and how various peeps attempt to spin them for their own gain / purposes.
I am a New Jersey DEP licensed radon specialist with 20+ years experience. I do some testing but mostly I mitigate homes....about 150 a year.
Third.....a plastic vapor barrier does noting to stop radon.....its a radioactive gas.....it passes through 4" concrete slab floors to enter the basement......if all it took was a plastic barrier to stop radon your dentist would cover you with a plastic sheet to take X-rays and not a lead vest.
Finally......This response is not in hate.....but the individual who supplied the above response is extremely ignorant of the facts and shouldn't be attempting to supply information.....In New Jersey he could be fined by the DEP for making statements without being certified to do so !!!
Jees, what does this gentlemen really think radon is???
A plastic barrier will not stop it. Will 6 inches of HY-100 steel stop it???
Is radon an alpha, beta or gamma emitter, color me getting very confused after all this highly learned information.
God your skin or a sheet of paper will stop that Alpha. Beta, Ok cover up that skin with a layer of clothing, that always worked before. If that baby Killer Radon is highly MEV Gamma maybe we better get 12 inches of lead. Nothing like 6 tenth thickness of shielding to slow that puppy down. Don't want to get them kids in the basement worried.
Wow, this really is getting deep, in New Jersey you can be fined for Free Speech. This is getting serious. I remember that was where the Martians landed in War of the Worlds. Bet them death rays were radon powered. Just goes to show what 20+ years of experience can do for a guy. More than a lil radon floating around in Jersey.
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