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Sort of looks like fake brick to me. The mortar joints look too good. Real brick joints would tend to crack in that type of service. You would be getting heating / cooling cycles and with no normal support thru the chimney column the bricks would want to crack at the joints. I'm guessing fake brick which also would make sense from a construction point of view.
I would say do a close on the roof hands on inspection. Should be able to tell if they are fake or real. Peeps do dumb things but I doubt anybody would put real brick in that application. Even the guy doing it would know it was super dumb. Craftsmanship doesn't look half bad.
Quit squawking and climb up on the roof. Look down in the top, should be quickly apparent what it is. Just tapping on it, usually can tell. Real brick and fake brick don't sound the same.
Might try to estimate the weight if real brick. What are we talking here total???? Could also go up in the attic and look up in that hole where the chimney goes thru, see what that tells us. Could be a plywood box out around it with fake brick applied. Doesn't anybody just go look any more.
Wood burning f/pl- and there is no chase in the attic?! Big code violation there.
And the roof is made of 2X4 trusses- no extra bracing.
And no counterflashing at the brick.
That's one %#@*ed up fireplace! And I'd be very surprised if that was done by the original builder of the house.
Not to seem stupid but what is a chase and what does it do?
Also, would the brick being "fake" expain why there is no flashing around it. This was mentioned in the inspection as a problem but it seems odd that it hasn't leaked with no flashing (no sign of leakage when he went in the attic).
As a side note, it may be fake but I would hope that my inspector/contractor would have the sense to actually look inside the chimney surround to ascertain that. I realize that I could do that but its kinda what I pay him to do and me looking at it doesn't seem like it would do a lot of good if I didn't know what I was looking for.
I don't really think it is fake as there is some cracking around the chimney cap.
Last edited by brewstate; 01-13-2009 at 11:49 AM..
Not to seem stupid but what is a chase and what does it do?
Also, would the brick being "fake" expain why there is no flashing around it. This was mentioned in the inspection as a problem but it seems odd that it hasn't leaked with no flashing (no sign of leakage when he went in the attic).
As a side note, it may be fake but I would hope that my inspector/contractor would have the sense to actually look inside the chimney surround to ascertain that. I realize that I could do that but its kinda what I pay him to do and me looking at it doesn't seem like it would do a lot of good if I didn't know what I was looking for.
Most home inspectors are not experts. They only warn you about potential problems so you can investigate further.
If I were you I would have another inspection by a fireplace specialist or an engineer before going further. You only have so many days to have all inspections so you may need to have that extended / modified on your contract.
It's better to find out now if the fireplace is a fire hazard than later when you can't get insurance without making costly modifications.
Also, would the brick being "fake" expain why there is no flashing around it. This was mentioned in the inspection as a problem but it seems odd that it hasn't leaked with no flashing (no sign of leakage when he went in the attic).
As a side note, it may be fake but I would hope that my inspector/contractor would have the sense to actually look inside the chimney surround to ascertain that. I realize that I could do that but its kinda what I pay him to do and me looking at it doesn't seem like it would do a lot of good if I didn't know what I was looking for.
I don't really think it is fake as there is some cracking around the chimney cap.
Yes, if they are fake and installed on a box out, the flashing is probably underneath, might even be covered by the shingles. A normal method of flashing would not be required. Most of those fake bricks are only about 1/4 - 1/2 thick. All those marks on the bricks, like the thumb marks also look like fake brick. Real brick do not have those type marks on first run brick.
Everything points to them being fake, least what you can tell from a photo. Nothing like getting up close and personal, should be able to tell very quick.
I certainly hope it is fake, besides that and a garage water heater not being on an 18 inch platform (there is however combustible air from the attic) There were no other problems with the house and its perfect for us. I do agree that it seems strange that the craftmanship of the chimney surround seems professional so one would assume that anyone with enough knowledge to install brick like that would realize that it weighs too much to be put on a roof with no extra support. I have done a few DIY projects but am not a construction expert at all and it seems painfully obvious to me. The sellers should be getting back to us in a few days. I'm sure if its fake they will find out and pass that information along. I would go look myself at this point (thanks to all your great tips) but the house currently has tennants and I have to request an appointment.
Also, would the brick being "fake" expain why there is no flashing around it. This was mentioned in the inspection as a problem but it seems odd that it hasn't leaked with no flashing (no sign of leakage when he went in the attic).
The chase is basically a box that is built around the flue pipe. Generally, it just 2X4's and OSB. The idea is to contain fire- so it doesn't spread through the attic. The flue pipe is in sections- and each joint is a potential flame leak. Most double wall flue pipe requires 2-4" of clearance from combustibles.
I referred to counter-flashing; that's the flashing that would be on the outside of the brick. Obviously there is some type of flashing (no leaks- yet) but that flashing we'll have to assume is on the inside. The idea with flashing is to prevent water from getting inside to begin with.
and a garage water heater not being on an 18 inch platform (there is however combustible air from the attic) .
The reason for the platform is because of gasoline fumes that could come from a car or small engine (lawn mower). Gasoline fumes are heavy- they stay close to the ground- reason for W/H platform. However; most W/H today have a built-in "sniffer" that will detect gas fumes and shut it off (I am referring to natural gas heaters, electric heaters don't require the platform).
There does not have to be a enclosure or chase inside the attic with a double wall metal flue, if all of the clearances are met. That is according to most codes. Usually there is a sheet metal separation between floors and that acts as a fire break.
The truss roof framing may be just fine. There may be proper bracing that is out of sight in the photos.
Since the main concern is the amount of weight that is resting on the roof sheathing, a determining factor is just how high the bricks are stacked.
While it is not the best building practice, and it probably would not meet code, and it will make shingle replacement a problem, it really may not be that much of a structural issue.
While it does not look like they did it here, if they bolted a steel angle to the framed enclosure for a brick ledge, the weight would probably be distributed OK. If the roof trusses were doubled at each side of the enclosure, the load might be fine too. Even adding extra framing to the trusses might carry the extra weight.
The main concern is the weight. Additional framing could be configured to carry the weight without a huge amount of work. The lack of counter flashing may also not be a huge problem, especially if there is step flashing under the brick. I had a discussion with a local building official about the lack of counter flashings on a house and he brought up the point of what they do with stone veneer. It is not possible to install counter flashing on stacked stone veneer. They rely on the flashings below the stones.
Since you really like the house, and the inspector did not indicate structural issues with the chimney enclosure, I would probably move on. You could then either beef up the framing under the enclosure, and deal with the bricks on the shingles when you re-roof, or you could strip the bricks off, and re-do the enclosure with another material, or install the brick veneer properly.
We are in contract on a house built in 1990. The inspection report came in and it turns out the wood burning fireplace has a chimney pipe that goes through the roof but is surrounded by an actual brick surround that has no support except the roof. The brick is mortared like a chimney but is sitting directly on the shingles. (Its not unstable now or anything just built wrong)The inspection said this was not normal but the sellers are trying to act like its no big deal. They are supposed to get a contractor to look at it but I'd like an unbias opinion? Does anyone know how serious this is? They said they might brace the roof up some but does that seem like enough? What about earthquakes, storms, etc?
I have tried googling it but can't even find anything on the subject at all.
We had a chimney issue with the house we bought last year. The house is >100 years old. The inspector said he was not a chimney expert, and we aren't either. He said the lining did not extend all the way to the bottom. It did extend past where the flue is, if the chimney were to be used. This was an old chimney where you could hook up a wood stove or something, not the primary chimney for the furnace. He just recommended we not use it and get a chimney person to look at it if we wanted to. I'm sure it would be different if it was the main chimney. We had the seller do some repairs, but that would have been a deal breaker. I do plan to have it looked at at some point.
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